Parliament of Uganda
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| Parliament of Uganda |
PRAYERS
(The Speaker, Mr Edward Ssekandi, in the Chair.)
COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR
THE SPEAKER: Honourable members, I just want to thank you again for the way we have been handling this process of completing the budget process before the end of the month. I also thank the committees that have already presented their reports. My thinking is that we should continue to know what is happening in the respective ministries for which each committee is in charge, and the monitoring should not stop at this time when we are dealing with the budget. It should be a continuous process, because when you see the chairpersons presenting their reports, you can tell a committee, which has been following exactly what is going on. We should continue to interact with the officials of the ministries and know their problems. I think that will make us more professional in our mandate.
During this session, let us keep our tempers down because if we do things in temper, our thinking will be impaired and therefore the results may not be what we expect. I realise that we are keeping our tempers down. I thank you very much.
MOTION THAT PARLIAMENT DO RESOLVE ITSELF INTO A COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY FOR THE CONSIDERATION AND APPROVAL OF:
(i) THE REVISED REVENUE AND EXPENDITURE FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 2002/2003;
(ii) THE BUDGETARY PROPOSALS FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 2003/2004 ESTIMATES OF REVENUE AND EXPENDITURE.
PRESENTATION, CONSIDERATION AND ADOPTION OF THE REPORT OF THE SESSIONAL COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL SERVICES ON THE MINISTERIAL POLICY STATEMENT AND BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 2003/2004
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
THE CHAIRMAN: Honourable members, I forgot one point. As I mentioned yesterday, there is another seminar going on which is important. So, the sooner we dispose of this report the better so that you can join the proceedings at Hotel Africana. I hope you are going to summarise the complete report for both Gender and Education, is that what you intend to do?
THE CHAIRPERSON, COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL SERVICES (Mrs Dorothy Hyuha): I will try. I want to thank you, Mr Chairman and honourable members.
Honourable members, you are aware, yesterday, concerning the report of the Committee on Social Services, we covered the Ministry of Health. We are going to begin with the Ministry of Gender, which is on page 25 of our report. Following the advise of the Chairman, I will just highlight here and there.
Mr Chairman, on page 25, we are talking about the preamble, where we are mainly emphasising the mandate of the Ministry of Gender. I wish to thank the Ministry of Gender that at long last they have an investment plan known as the Social Development Investment Plan, which will guide their priorities.
We also note that Ministry of Gender is seriously constrained by under funding. It is severely under funded and even if you talk of reallocation, you hardly find where to reallocate. They also lack key policies such as:
• Employment policy,
• Orphans and vulnerable children policy,
• Elderly policy and
• National cultural policy.
Mr Chairman, on page 26, you can note the priorities of the expenditure of the Ministry of Gender, which are highlighted there. I will begin with our observations on one of the most top priority of expenditure, which is Community Mobilisation and Empowerment.
Under community mobilisation, there is a concern on community development. This is a focal priority area in the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development where resources are directed to strengthen the community development function for mobilisation and empowerment of communities within the decentralised policy environment.
During the financial year 2002/2003, the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development was allocated Shs 1.18 billion for the implementation of the first phase activities of the programme for the revitalisation of community development function in the Local Government namely:
• Recruitment and induction of 113 new Community Development Workers (CDWs);
• Orientation of 298 existing Community Development Assistants;
• Provision of operational funds for all CDWs in 411 sub-counties.
The committee was concerned with the delayed recruitment of CDWs by local governments and late submission of the pay change reports by the Ministry of Public Service. We noted that 10 percent of the wage allocation was only accessed by the district. The committee noted that this was poor performance.
Mr Chairman and honourable members, under Community Centres, the committee observed that out of 960 sub-counties in the country, only 384 have a community centre each. We also noted that most of them were constructed in the 1960s and they are in a dilapidated state. A few of them have been rehabilitated where the PEARL Project is operating. Some ten new centres were constructed in the 1986-2003 with the support of the International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD).
The committee recommended that the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development should develop a master plan of building more new community centres in sub-counties, and also rehabilitate the existing ones.
On page 28, honourable members, the second key policy here is Functional Adult Literacy, which is commonly known as FAL. This is one of the top priority areas in the Ministry of Gender, and funds for FAL are PAF provided.
We also noted that Shs 1.423 billion was decentralised to districts as district grants for FAL. So many adult learners were recruited, literacy instructors trained, bicycles distributed to literacy instructors, learning centres were established countrywide and instructional materials were printed.
The committee observed that FAL programme instructors are not all facilitated with adequate transport and scholastic materials due to inadequate funding. This financial year Shs 3.6 billion has been earmarked for FAL. The committee recommended that Government should improve on the facilitation of FAL instructors.
On page 29, among the activities under community development is Community Based Rehabilitation, which promotes equalisation and social integration of Persons with Disabilities (PwDs) within their communities. This project only operates in 12 districts. The committee has recommended that the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development should expand the programme of Community Development for mass mobilisation and rehabilitation.
We also note that there are also rehabilitation centres for PwDs, which offer very useful skills to PwDs. The five rehabilitation centres for Persons with Disability include: Kireka, Lweza, Ruti, Mpumudde and Ocoko. However, the committee observed that rehabilitation centres for PwDs are currently operating below capacity due to inadequate resources.
Honourable members, on culture, the committee was concerned about the delay to develop a National Cultural Policy and Action Plan, which would guide the development and presentation of Uganda’s diverse cultural heritage.
The committee observed that the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development has delayed to operationalise Article 246 of the Constitution, which provides for the benefits and privileges to traditional / cultural leaders. The ministry, therefore, has no budget line to support the cultural / traditional leaders.
The committee is greatly concerned about the delay to amend the Witchcraft Act (March 1957), so that there is adequate protection of children who are sacrificed by traditional witchcraft. The committee recommended that Government should expedite the processes of addressing the three above stated concerns on culture.
Honourable members, concerning the youth and children, we note that Shs 759 million was allocated for non-wage recurrent. The major achievements include rehabilitation of the National Rehabilitation Centres at Kampirigisa with the assistance of some volunteer companies like ROKO Construction, Zzimwe Enterprises, National Housing and Peacock Paints. We wish to thank very greatly these supporters. A total of Shs 350 million was spent on the rehabilitation excluding contributions from volunteers. Other children’s institutions will be renovated in phases.
Mr Chairman, page 31, we continue to note the achievements under the youth and children department. I wish to highlight that the ministry received, rehabilitated and resettled 6,000 abducted children from northern Uganda back to the communities.
We also wish to note that a draft of Orphans and Vulnerable Children Policy was developed.
We are concerned about the abduction of children who are being exchanged for guns by the rebels in the conflict areas.
We also continue to be concerned about the mushrooming institutions or orphanages claiming to be taking care of HIV/AIDS orphans and other vulnerable children. The committee recommended that Orphans and Vulnerable Children Policy should be fastened to come on board.
On page 32, we note, on the Labour, Employment and Industrial Relations and Occupational Safety and health. Our major concern is about the delay to review the outstanding labour laws, namely:
• Employment Decrees No.4, 1975,
• The Trade Union Decree No.20 1976,
• The Trade Disputes (Arbitration and Settlement) of 1964, and
• The Factories Act Cap. 198, 1964.
Mr Chairman, the committee commended the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development for the Workers’ Compensation Act, 2000 as a very big achievement. This law has woken up the private sector to the realisation of the need for adequate safety measures at work places.
The committee was concerned about lack of the budget allocations earmarked to compensate the families of Ebola victims in this financial year 2003/2004 as required by the compensation Act, 2000. Last financial year 2002/2003, a total bill for compensation of the Ebola victims was Shs 818 million. However, out of this, Shs 400 million was approved by Parliament and only Shs 66 million was released and paid to 32 families of Ebola victims, each family received an average of Shs 2 million.
Mr Chairman, there is also yet another bill of Shs 195.6 million for Government to Compensate other persons who were injured in civil service like Agriculture. The committee recommended that the Ministry of Finance, Planning and Economic Development should provide for these funds to compensate victims in the supplementary schedule. I wish the minister was listening to this, Mr Chairman, because it is a very serious issue for the Ministry of Finance. We are strongly recommending that this was a very serious commitment and we should find money in the supplementary schedule to address this concern.
Mr Chairman, there is a delay by the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development to draft the National Employment Policy. Currently, there is a lot of unemployment of graduates from higher institutions of learning in this country.
Mr Chairman, the Industrial Court has remained under funded for quite along time to the extent that they have been evicted due to failure to meet rental and utility obligations. Last financial year, Parliament recommended that the funding of the Industrial Court be directly charged from the Consolidated Fund.
The Ministry of Gender, Labour and social Development informed the committee that only the wage of the President of the Industrial Court of Shs 30 million is charged from the Consolidated Fund. However, the wages for the other staff and operational funds come from the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development ceiling.
The committee observed that there was non-compliance by the Ministry of Finance, and I hope the minister is listening to this.
The semi-autonomous institutions that fall within the mandate of the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development include:
• The National Council for Children,
• The National Youth Council,
• The National Women’s Council,
• The National Library of Uganda,
• The Uganda National Cultural Centre,
• The National Social Security Fund and
• The Industrial Court.
The Disability Council is yet to be established following the National Council for Disability law recently passed by Parliament.
The major constraints affecting the performance of these semi-autonomous institutions is under funding as indicated in the table on page 35.
Honourable members, I want you to note, as you study the table, the declining trend in funding of the National Women Council and National Youth Council as indicated by the statistics.
The National Youth Council received a subvention of Shs 182 million in the last financial year, and during this financial year, only Shs 148 million has been allocated to cover the wage and operational costs.
On page 36, honourable members, the committee was informed that the National Youth Council has given out motorcycles to all District Youth councils, except the newly created districts, which will receive in this financial year. I am happy the Minister of Finance is here.
Recently, we amended Statutes of National Youth Council, National Women Council and of course, we also passed the National Council for Disability and the ministry brought financial complications. We are disappointed to note that what was indicated in the financial implications is not what we provided within the ceiling.
Mr Chairman, we are recommending that the Ministry of Finance should release those funds they indicated in the financial certificates. For example, Shs 514 million was indicated in the certificate of financial implications during the consideration of the National Youth Statute (Amendment) Bill passed by Parliament.
When it comes to National Women Council, it is the same story. This year only Shs 164 million has been budgeted for the National Women’s Council. They have indicated that they are supposed to support lower councils. The council intends to send Shs 45 million to districts as operational funds. I wish to note that for the last four months, the National women’s Council has received zero release for non-wage. So we do not see them even implementing the law, which we recently passed if they cannot decentralise these funds. I hope the minister is listening. We wish to remind him to comply with what we passed on the Floor.
Mr Chairman, the committee was informed that except the new districts, 45 districts received one motorcycle each - this concerns the Women Councils as you can read on page 36. We have recommended that in the financial year 2003/2004, the National Women’s Council should operationalise the new law to open up offices and to decentralise funds. This will depend on how finances are released.
Public Libraries:
The committee was mainly concerned with the extent to which the ministry and Libraries Board is implementing the National Library Act, 2001. The committee was disappointed to learn that despite the commitment by UNESCO to assist in building the National Library, Government has not yet acquired the land on which to construct the building. Furthermore, it was observed that the funding given to the public library cannot even meet the wage requirements of the institution. The wage arrears of Shs 30 million in last financial year have been carried forward to this financial year.
Mr Chairman, you can imagine wage is a right but these Public libraries cannot even meet the wage of their civil servants. Government should, therefore, acquire land where the National library should be built as a matter of priority. Funding to the Public Libraries Board should be stepped up to meet the wages.
About National Security Fund, on page 38, I only wish to highlight that the major one was concerning investments of workers’ fund. This was concentrated mainly in the centre. Members are of the view that these should be spread upcountry because the contributors do not come from the centre. We also noted that low interest rates to beneficiaries, which is currently at 4 per cent according to NSSF, would soon be revised to 6 per cent.
I want to draw your attention to the table below indicating the investments of the National Social Security Fund Investments: There is long term, medium term and short term in comparison of what it was last year and what it is this year. When you look at page 39, the total NSSF investments have increased by Shs 62 billion from last year.
I wish to emphasis that the investments of workers’ funds should be spread countrywide, Mr Chairman. That ends my highlights on the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development. I now want to draw your attention to the Ministry of Education.
The Ministry of Education and Sports report begins from page 40. It is containing the preamble, which is emphasising their mission and broad priority objective.
On page 41, they indicate their major constraints, namely; lack of a Sports policy; lack of pre-primary policy; inadequate funding of the Secondary Education Wage Bill; low capacity by district local governments to oversee and ensure delivery of quality education; and insecurity in some parts of the country which limit the implementation of programmes.
Mr Chairman, I want to draw the members’ attention, to page 42, about budget performance. I want to emphasise here that last year the total budget allocation to the education sector was Shs 550.79 billion. We note that at the end of the financial year, the education sector had spent Shs 559.21 billion. This was beyond the approved budget by Shs 8.42 billion while the supplementary schedule was only Shs 881.6 million. This was over and above the approved expenditure. The committee was concerned about the additional expenditure without approval of Parliament.
The committee recommended that the Ministry of Finance, Planning and Economic Development and the Ministry of Education and Sports should comply with the new law, the Public Finance Accountability Act, 2003. When you read Section 17 of that Act, it talks about how the ministries should comply and what is said about over expenditure. Honourable members, you should take time and study this new law. Section 17 clearly tells us what would happen when there is over expenditure. I also want to draw your attention to the table on how the sector has made allocations to the various sub sectors, namely, primary education, secondary education, tertiary education and others.
The committee observed and expressed great concern about more funding of budget on primary education from the original 65 per cent and now at 68.5 percent. You note that the general reduction of other sub sectors is 2 percent while the primary sector increased by 2.1 percent.
While the Primary Education sub-sector should remain a top priority in the Ministry of Education and Sports, it should not be increased at the expense of other sub-sectors, which are under-funded.
The committee, therefore, recommended that the budget of Primary Education should be scaled down to 65 percent, but instead steadily increase the budget expenditure of Post Primary Education and training in order to cater for the UPE graduates. Post primary education includes secondary education, business education, technical education and vocational education
I now want to turn to Primary Education and this will end our observation on performance of the budget on the education sector.
Primary Education sub-sector constitutes the main priority of Government expenditure. It is currently spending more than 65 per cent of the total education budget. I want you to note the achievements of primary education, which is listed on page 43. We appreciate the increased access to education by the poor. UPE programme created the enrolment of children in primary education, which now stands at 7.3 million children.
Honourable members, you also note the expansion of the existing school facilities through construction. On page 44, we note that the recruitment of teachers is on going and currently it has reduced teacher to pupil ratio from 1:110 in 1997 to 1:54 in 2003.
We also note the provision of instructional materials, textbooks and furniture to schools. We wish to thank Government and the Minister of Education for these achievements.
The committee also took time to analyse the challenges of Universal Primary Education and the biggest challenge, which we need to address here, is the high dropout rates. High dropout rates threaten the sustainability of the successes we have enumerated. We were in position to follow up those children who enrolled in class in 1997 and how many reached P.7 in 2003 and we have noted a severe dropout rate. Explanations were given by the sector but our major recommendation, Mr Chairman, is that the ministry should have a master plan to address the high dropout rates.
The second challenge is about construction, as you might have read. On page 45, we note that the challenge is substandard quality of facilities and infrastructure provided under the School Facility Grant (SFG). On average, 30 percent of the construction is shoddy work, Mr Chairman.
We were also disappointed that quite often, the target numbers of construction are not achieved in spite of a big release. Our recommendation here is that Minister of Education should review the tendering systems in future.
About teacher recruitment, in 3.3 –(Interruption)
THE CHAIRMAN: But if I may ask, who is in charge of tendering? Is it the Minister of Education or the Minister of Local Government?
MRS HYUHA: Mr Chairman, this is a crosscutting item. It is implemented by Local Government, but Education has a serious stake also on providing policies, how it should be implemented by Local Government.
Now, our concern on teacher recruitment: Honourable members, the committee was concerned that the target of teachers to be recruited was not met in the last financial year, and 2,096 teachers did not access the payroll even with the additional Shs 3.9 billion. This is a challenge to the ministers of Education, Finance and Local Government.
Concerning instructional materials and textbooks, honourable members, I want you to note and support this policy when you go to your constituencies. The new policy concerning provision of textbooks is that books should be in the hands of children and the ministry has sent guidelines. It is intended to ensure that schools do not keep the textbooks in stores but instead supply them to the learners. The committee expressed concern over the delayed systems of delivering textbooks and quite often the stealing of textbooks in many schools.
We had a concern, which is a challenge to the ministry, about the implementation of the new curriculum. We note that the curriculum of primary education has expanded from four subjects to 10 subjects. Currently, 10 subjects are being taught in primary as you can see the list. We also note the challenge of the scope of examination, which has expanded from four primary leaving papers to six.
The committee observed that the introduction of new primary school curriculum has been weak. Some subjects have neither trained teachers nor textbooks. There is a mismatch between the curriculum and available teachers’ textbooks, for example, Kiswahili.
The ministry told us that, as a way forward, the post of a Kiswahili tutor at each primary teachers’ college has been established throughout the country, which means we will begin to train the teachers who will teach the children this language.
Regarding the teaching of local languages, the primary teachers who are already in service will undergo in-service courses in local languages to empower them to handle the required teaching. Those are the strategies put in place by the Ministry of Education.
3.6 The low morale of teachers: Mr Chairman, the committee was concerned about the pending strikes of teachers as demonstrated last financial year because of the discrepancies in salaries between head teachers and classroom teachers. In a joint meeting held between Public Service, Education and the committee, the committee was informed that Government has earmarked Shs 4 billion in this financial year to address the pay change reforms so that the lowest Grade III teacher would earn Shs 113,000 per month with effect from this financial year. The committee recommended that Government should continue to revise the salaries of teachers upwards.
The next challenge we noted was about UPE capitation grants. Honourable members, you are aware that these grants go direct to primary schools. But we noted that there are delays in disbursement of UPE grants and inappropriate estimates of grants. One school can receive more than what they expect. If they have 500 children, you can find a school receiving money for about 700 children and then in other cases, you can find a higher estimate. You can find a school with 900 children but it has received the capitation of 500 children. So, the committee has recommended that the ministries of Finance, Local Government and Education should harmonise and address these anomalies.
Supervision and monitoring is yet another challenge to UPE. There is inadequate supervision and monitoring of SFG construction, utilisation of UPE capitation grants and quality teaching.
Mr Chairman, we recommend that the Education Standard Agency should be strengthened through proper financing. This is an agency, which replaced what used to be the inspectorate department. We note that even the law is not yet in place and the financing is still quite low. Therefore, we do not see much down there concerning the supervision and monitoring of these programmes.
Teacher Education: What I want to emphasis on page 49, honourable members, is the admission policy in Primary Teachers’ Colleges. I want you to note that the admission policy has been revised from four passes of UCE to six passes, which must include Mathematics and English.
Honourable members, we debated this at length. I have received quite a number of concerns from honourable members that some girls or some blind children no longer access these colleges because they are not performing well in Mathematics. But we feel that for us to encourage quality products from primary teachers’ colleges, the committee has supported this policy. We want to encourage you to support this policy, honourable members, so that we get good quality teachers who will handle our children. So, if a student is to be admitted in a primary teachers’ college, do not think of only four passes, that student must have obtained at least six passes, which must include Mathematics and English.
However, we were concerned about the high failure rates. The ministry has tried because last financial year they told us they were at 43 percent, which means that every 100 students who were admitted, 43 were failing. Since Government is sponsoring these children free until they come out, we thought that was a big waste. But this year, we are getting a report that currently the failure rate is at 35 percent. We still feel it is too high; Government needs to improve.
Construction is a priority; you can read what is going on in the construction of infrastructure of teachers’ colleges.
Can we move to post-primary education, on page 50? When we talk of PPET, which includes secondary education and business, technical, vocational, education and training (BTVET).
What were our observations? You can read those policies in place but I want to emphasise the secondary education sub-sector. One of the key policies is one secondary school per sub-county. This is a key policy supposed to increase access and equity within the secondary education. However, we noted that the implementation of this policy has been slow and currently out of 1000 sub-counties only 550 have a government-aided secondary school while 400 are without.
Mr Chairman, the ministry, on page 51, has the following strategies to increase access to secondary education:
• To introduce bursary scheme for the bright but needy students;
• Provision of capitation grants;
• To implement the ADB Education II Project, which includes construction of laboratories and libraries;
• To grant aid to community or private secondary schools;
• Construction of seed secondary schools and rehabilitating the existing facilities.
Mr Chairman, 5.2, I want the honourable members to note this policy of bursary scheme, so that they help Government to monitor and supervise. This policy was implemented with effect from last year. It is a policy of a bursary scheme for the bright but needy students in secondary and I only wanted to remind you that last financial year, the committee commented about the guidelines, which were provided. It is supposed to be to the needy but bright children per sub-county and selected by the sub-county leadership and their names are sent through the district to the Ministry of Education.
Mr Chairman, a total of Shs 270,000 per year is tuition paid directly to a school where a student is attending. Last year we voted Shs 500 million and 1,814 students benefited from it. The policy is good and we are only urging the ministry to strengthen the selection criteria to minimise corruption.
Honourable members, watch out so that councillors do not choose their own children both at district level, as we have received some reports that at district level instead of allowing the sub-counties to identify these children, the councillors or those bureaucrats at the district just sat and listed names and sent up.
You may find that a few districts - because I was approached by colleagues - may not have received the cheques because the ministry withheld them until further investigation to make sure that the rightful people are the ones benefiting. I wish to inform you that this financial year Shs 1 billion has been earmarked for this policy and we shall expect that at least four children from each sub-county will benefit: the two who were chosen last year and the two who are to be chosen this year.
Mr Chairman and honourable members, page 52 capitation grants: Government has a policy of providing a government grant-aided school, with Shs 65 per student per school per day. What Government sends to these secondary schools, every child receives Shs 65 per working day. During holidays, these schools do not receive this capitation grant; they only receive it during working days. Honourable members, I am happy to inform you that from our interaction with the Ministry of Education, capitation grant has been increased to Shs 75 per student per school per day. We appreciated this, Mr Chairman. (Applause). Can you clap for Ministry of Finance also, we recognise you please!! We must appreciate because we were told that Shs 1 billion has been allocated within the budget and when they spread out, we feel that those government-aided secondary schools on average will receive Shs 75 per student per day.
ADB project (Construction of libraries and laboratories): A total of Shs 17.8 billion has been earmarked from the ADB Education project loan to construct 54 science laboratories and 70 libraries in selected rural girls secondary schools. Honourable members, I want you to note that this was a loan, which was passed in the Sixth Parliament and sites were chosen in the financial year 2000/01. But as we talk now, this project has not yet started.
Concerning the 54 science laboratories, sites were chosen in the financial year 2000/01 also the 70 libraries. When we interacted with the Ministries of Finance and Education, the Ministry of Finance told us that they hope the project will kick-start next year. The committee expressed concern over the delay to start this project and we recommend that Ministry of Finance should expedite the process of releasing ADB loan funds. Our concern, honourable members, is when the Ministry of Finance brings the loans here you know how fast they tell us to beat the deadline. But now how many years has it taken for the implementation of this?
5.3 Grant-aid in community schools is yet another policy. The Ministry of Education started implementation of a policy of grant-aid in community schools in 2000 when 104 schools were taken over by Government. Since then, honourable members, no more community schools have been grant-aided. Very few teachers have been recruited in these schools.
Mr Chairman, there is yet another policy to increase access to secondary education; Seed secondary schools. When we talk of a seed secondary school, Government constructs four fully furnished classrooms, one science laboratory, one office block, one reading room, two six stances blocks of pit latrines at a unit cost of Shs 147.6 million. Every year we have been voting this. However, the criteria of selecting sites is in sub-counties without a government-aided secondary school at all and selection is done by district authorities, honourable members.
I wish to report that since the financial year 2001/02, a total of 17 seed secondary schools have been completed and coded by the Ministry of Public Service. You can see those, which have been completed so far from the list. I have seen quite a number of colleagues coming to consult saying that their sites were chosen. These are the ones, which have been completed, honourable members.
Challenges of seed schools and community grant-aided schools are:
The committee was concerned about the slow pace of construction of seed secondary schools. In the medium term, we should have had 90, on average 30 secondary schools every financial year. But only 17 are completed, honourable members.
The committee recommended that Finance should improve on the release for construction so that targets are met.
Page 54, I will beg, Mr Chairman, that I read this text because we have made fundamental changes in the reallocations, which are going to be implemented this financial year.
Honourable members, concerning the shortfalls in Wage Bill, although Shs 61 billion was provide for the Wage Bill for secondary schools in the MTEF this financial year, there was a shortfall of Shs 10 billion to fill 7,000 vacancies.
The committee noted with disappointment that the recommendation by the Budget Committee to reallocate Shs 10 billion to finance the Wage Bill for secondary schools had not been considered by Ministry of Education even after the increase of the budget ceiling by 9 percent (Shs 23 billion).
Following the meeting between the ministries of Education, Public Service and Finance and the committee on 12 August 2003 and other consequential meetings of the Budget Committee, it was agreed that Shs 4.6 billion be raised to recruit teachers for secondary schools this financial year.
This amount will be raised as follows:
• We agreed that a reduction of Shs 2.0 billion from VAT provision under the Education Vote should be raised.
• Shs 2.6 billion from the projected savings within the overall Wage Bill should be raised so that it makes a total of Shs 4.6 billion.
Honourable members, these funds will be utilised to recruit teachers in the most critical areas of secondary school sub-sector, which include:
• We expect that this financial year the Ministry of Education should recruit a minimum of 12 teachers in each of the 17 seed schools, which are listed here.
• We expect that Ministry of Education should recruit 300 teachers of Mathematics and English, then another 300 teachers of vocational and science subjects in the 104 community/private secondary schools, which were grant-aided in financial year 2000/01.
• We expect that the Minister of Education to recruit another 150 teachers for schools, which have limited establishment as low as four teachers.
• We expect that the Minister of Education should grant-aid at least to 34 community secondary schools this financial year.
The committee appreciated these strategies of Ministry of Education, Public Service and Finance as indicated above. The Committee has recommended that grant-aiding more community schools should be considered next financial year as a major quick strategy to absorb the UPE graduates into post- primary institutions.
The committee also recommended that the Ministry of Education should expedite the validation process to establish the required teacher ceiling of secondary education. Honourable members, I want you to note here, because all along we thought there is a ban on recruitment. But when we met Public Service, Education and Finance, they told us there is no ban on recruitment of teachers in secondary education. What education has not done is to establish the ceiling. But as soon as they establish the ceiling - because in primary education the ceiling is that every 54 children should have a teacher, but in secondary the ceiling is in terms of teacher lot. So, we want the Ministry of Education to move fast so that Public Service and Finance can recruit the teachers in secondary schools.
Business, Technical, Vocational Education and Training (BTVET): The committee commended the Ministry of Education for the operationalisation of 16 community polytechnics that started in February.
We noted the major challenges and one of them is under-funding of BTVET and the lack of BTVET policy.
The committee further noted the delay to start the construction of 14 community polytechnics, which were funded by the Islamic Development Bank loan (IDB) of US $ 2.09 million. Although Parliament approved the loan of US $ 2.09 million, the sites were selected in financial year 2001/02, funds have not yet been accessed by the Ministry of Education.
Many of you have been asking about the construction. The loan was approved but the money is not yet available. So, the committee is recommending that Finance should do its role so that the construction starts immediately.
Another concern, honourable members - I hope you have read in details - is about the admission of students in nursing and midwifery training institutions. Quite a number of you came with petitions that children had been sent out. I want to emphasise this policy because it is quite fundamental. According to the Ministry of Education, the policy on admission of students to nurses/midwifery training institutions is that all students admitted must have a minimum requirement as follows:
• Registered Comprehensive Nursing Course (tenable at Soroti and Masaka). The candidate must have obtained five credits in ‘O’ level which must include English, Biology, chemistry, Physics, Mathematics or a candidate must have obtained at least two principal passes in science subjects at ‘A” level (Biology and Chemistry).
• Enrolled Comprehensive Nursing Course (tenable at Lira, Kabale, Jinja and Arua). The minimum entry is five credits: English, Biology, Chemistry, Physics and Mathematics at ‘O’ level.
• Enrolled Nurses/Midwifery (tenable at Arua, Kabale, Jinja and Lira) the Minimum requirements five passes at ‘O’ level in Biology, Chemistry, Physics, English and Mathematics.
However, students have been eliminated from these institutions shortly after admission if they are found to - and I want honourable members to note this because many of you have come to the committee expressing the concern why students have been eliminated.
(iv) have forged papers;
(v) have no originals of the required papers;
(vi) have impersonated;
(vii) have not got minimum requirements; and
(viii) have not sat for interviews at all.
I am told that there are some politicians who put pressure on these institutions after interviews for their children or their candidates to be admitted. When these institutions and the Nursing Council and the Ministry of Education verify later and find that somebody has been admitted without interviews, they are sent out.
The monitoring and supervision to ensure quality standards of these Health Training Institutions is done by the Ministry of Education (BTVET sub-sector), Education Standard Agency and the Uganda Nurses/Midwives Council.
It was noted that there are conflicts in law/policy that regulate standards of the training institutions. The committee, therefore, recommended that Government should harmonise these laws such as the Uganda Nurses/Midwives Council Statute, and the University and Other Tertiary Institutions Act, 2001.
The committee noted that there are still fewer science teachers, laboratories and equipment in many secondary schools. It was, therefore, recommended that a policy on high academic requirements on these nursing courses be reviewed by the ministries of Education and Health. So, we want the ministries of Health and Education to review these policies because we feel it is too high and they can moderate.
Higher Education: Honourable members, this time we did not have texts written on each university because there are many, but we have crosscutting issues. You can see the achievements under this sub-sector.
I only wish to emphasise here that after the establishment of Gulu and Kyambogo Universities by resolution of Parliament, the two universities access consolidated funds through Vote 139 and 149 respectively.
There is an increase of universities, as you can see the list. We used to have Makerere and Mbarara but now you can see the list has Makerere, Mbarara, Kyambogo, Gulu, Makerere University Business School and Uganda Management Institute. This has increased accessibility to higher education.
The establishment of national higher education is in place, and we were informed that there is a draft of the strategic plan for higher education.
You have read the challenges on page 60, but I only want to emphasise here that one of the major challenges of universities is the disparity in the wages of the staff in public universities and their neighbouring institutions. For the teaching hospitals, if I can use Makerere and Mulago as an example, you find that some staff of Makerere Medical School are teaching students using Mulago Hospital. But a professor who is on the ward in Mulago is entitled to lunch allowance and is enjoying that facility, while a professor who is under Makerere University, on the same ward, will not have that facility.
In Mbarara it is worse. We were given the example that the disparity between the staff of Mbarara Teaching Hospital and the staff of Mbarara Hospital was so big that it had caused the rise in tuition fees. Many staff are running away from Mbarara University to join Mbarara Hospital. So, government should harmonise wages in public universities and teaching hospitals, to do away with these anomalies.
We were concerned about the delay of the release of academic transcripts by some universities, which affect graduates’ access to jobs and further training.
Also, there are delays by some institutions in organising graduation ceremonies. We thought with the new technology this one should not be a problem, particularly at Makerere University.
On page 61, we were concerned about the geographical imbalance of distribution of public universities, Mr Chairman. Three traditional regions namely Central, Western and Northern, each has a public university, while the eastern region has none. So, the Government should immediately plan to establish a public university in the Eastern region within the short run.
Mr Chairman, we were concerned about the delay to establish the Higher Education Loans Board (HELB), and the University’s Students Loan Scheme to cater for the bright but needy. Last financial year Shs 500 million was earmarked but only the consultancy for HELB has been done.
We are concerned about the delay to start the implementation of the quota system in public universities as indicated on page 27 of last year’s policy statement and the report of the Social Services Committee passed on 16th May in the second session. The committee was informed that the Ministry of Education is yet to consult Cabinet over this subject.
The committee was further concerned about the delay to establish an Open University as earlier indicated in the previous policy statement. We were also concerned about the delay to appoint specified and other administrative officers namely Chancellors, Vice Chancellors, Academic Registrars and others in public universities as required by the University Act. The delay is causing many administrative problems that affect the smooth operation of the institutions.
On page 62, honourable members, we were concerned about – there is no report yet about solutions to resolve the outstanding conflicts between Makerere University and the Makerere University Business School, Nakawa. The Ministry informed us that it is yet to consult Cabinet about this subject.
We were concerned about the inadequate staffing levels in many universities.
Honourable members, we were also concerned about the admission policy in public universities where some students change courses when on government sponsorship and eventually they forego their financial sponsorship. We recommend that there is need to review this admission policy so that students are allowed to transfer with their financial allocations either within the courses or to other universities. (Applause).
The new public universities namely Gulu and Mbarara have concentrated their developments on temporary sites because of the expensive master plan. Honourable members, you note that Mbarara has been in Mbarara Teaching Hospital and whenever we give them funds on development, they have concentrated on improving the old structures and there is nothing yet on the new site.
When we met Gulu University officials, they say it is the same story. They have been housed in the District Farm Institute of Gulu and they were planning to construct a building in Gulu Farm Institute yet they have their own site. Their reasoning was that their plan is very expensive and they cannot begin putting up storied buildings. So, we have advised that the ministry should review these expensive master plans to include both short-term and long-term constructions.
Education Service Commission:
You can note their mission on page 63. Honourable members, we appreciate the achievements of the Education Service Commission. However, I want to emphasise the last bullet of page 63, which says that there is no operational policy in the education sector on granting study leave to teachers. The committee noted that teachers who go for further studies have been deleted from the payroll and some of them are being referred to as “ghost teachers”.
The Education Service Commission, however, pointed out that the basic requirements for granting study leave are as follows:
• The teacher must be registered and appointed in the Education Service Commission.
• He or she must have been confirmed in the service or produced evidence that confirmation is being processed.
• The course of study must be relevant to the subjects the teacher teaches, or to education in general.
• He or she must show proof of admission to a training institution.
• The application for study leave must be endorsed by the head of the institution where the teacher is deployed, and the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of education and Sports.
The committee recommended that a teacher who goes for training for more than one year, the vacancy be filled and his or her wage be transferred to the Ministry of Education and Sports.
Mr Chairman, we do not want teachers to be discouraged because many of them are right now as I talk, running up and down. There was an exercise recently carried out by the Ministry of Education and those who were found not to have got permission are being termed as “ghost teachers”. These did not follow this procedure and we are saying that in order not to discourage teachers from going for further training, there should be a clear policy.
We also feel that those who qualify – if somebody is going for training for more than one year - certainly the children should not be left to suffer. The school could find a teacher to replace him or her, but the salary of this teacher should be transferred to the headquarters. What we recommended for the Ministry of Health should be applied to the Ministry of Education, if it could be taken in.
Concerning Uganda National Examinations Board, that is their policy, status and also how they are going to generate money. However, I want you to turn to page 66. The committee appreciated - you are aware that for a very long time we have not been having a substantive Executive Secretary in UNEB - and the committee thinks that was one of the weaknesses, which were causing some problems. But we are happy to report to you that the ministry has now appointed a substantive Executive Secretary of UNEB, Mr Bukenya.
We also appreciated that the deployment of scouts to all PLE sitting centres reduced the cases of cheating and fraud. This year we have had very few cases of cheating because the Ministry of Education deployed scouts in all these centres, as we recommended. We maintain that this policy should stay so that we minimize the cheating.
We also appreciated the timely release of results by UNEB at all levels; we thank them.
Challenges to UNEB:
We note inadequate resources and facilities to cater for the increasing numbers and expanded curriculum of UPE.
The committee was concerned about the impersonation and many increasing cases of forged documents.
The committee has recommended that more funding be given to UNEB to cater for the expanded curriculum and large numbers.
Sports:
Sports has many challenges, as we have always reported. They lack a sports policy, they are under-funded and they have outdated laws. The Sports Department in the entire ministry has a very thin structure where we see only the Minister and one desk officer.
On page 67, honourable members, last financial year the Social Services Committee recommended to Parliament not to approve the budget of the Ministry of Education if by this financial year they did not have a sports policy.
However, after series of meetings with the Ministry of Education and Sports, the committee was informed about some steps that have been taken towards the establishment of a sports policy. This included:
• The Procurement process to select consultants, which ended on 13 May 2003.
• The Ministry of Education and Sports selected Harley Reeds Consultants to produce a costed strategic plan for the sports policy within 45 days.
• Concept paper and draft document of sports policy were produced and discussed by the stakeholders on 30 July 2003.
• Top management of the Ministry of Education and Sports and the sports committees on the policy are expected to discuss the draft this August, and then forward the draft to Cabinet for approval.
• The Ministry of Education and Sports strongly promised that by 30th September, the sports policy would be ready.
The committee was happy about this current positive trend towards the establishment of the sports policy by the Ministry of Education and Sports. Basing on this positive trend, the committee, therefore, recommends the approval of the Budget of Ministry of Education and Sports this Financial Year. However, the Ministry of Education and Sports should bring the sports policy to Parliament in October 2003, as promised to the committee.
Mr Chairman, I now beg this august House to approve the following votes:
Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development: Vote 018 – recurrent expenditure of Shs 4.97 billion, development expenditure of Shs 9.946 billion, and a total of Shs 14.92 billion.
Under the Ministry of Education and Sports, I beg to request this august House to approve for Vote 013 - Ministry of Education, recurrent expenditure of Shs 46,903,994, and Shs 99,920,556 for development expenditure.
I also do request this august House to approve for Vote 136 – Makerere University, recurrent expenditure of Shs 26.289 billion. And if you have what we circulated yesterday, we have revised the development budget of Makerere. It has gone back to the original. It is no longer five; it is now a development budget of Shs 16.855 billion.
I do request this august House, Mr Chairman, to approve Vote 140 – Uganda Management Institute, a Vote of Shs 395,000,560 with zero for the development fund.
Mr Chairman, I do request this august House to approve Vote 132 – Education Service Commission, the recurrent expenditure of Shs 1,563,400,000, and for development expenditure Shs 52,800,000.
I also request this august House to approve Vote 137 – Mbarara University, a recurrent total vote of Shs 7.18 billion and development expenditure of Shs 436,600,000.
Honourable members, I do request you to approve for Vote 139 – Kyambogo University, a recurrent expenditure of Shs 4,987,871,000 and development expenditure of Shs 233,900,000.
I do request you to approve for Vote 138 - Makerere University Business School, recurrent expenditure of Shs 2,907,034,000 with zero development fund.
Honourable members, I do request you to approve for Vote 149 – Gulu University, recurrent expenditure of Shs 1,816,500,00 and development expenditure of Shs 1,191,500,000
MR MWESIGWA RUKUTANA: Mr Chairman, Gulu University’s development expenditure is Shs 1,199,000,000, not Shs 1,191,000,000.
MRS HYUHA: Yes, if it is an increase, I have no objection to it. Honourable members, we do not need to read the district funds here. I, therefore, wish to request you to approve a total recurrent expenditure for the Ministry of Education and Sports of Shs 427,605,000,000, and development expenditure of Shs 178,47 billion -(Interruption)
MR MWESIGWA RUKUTANA: Mr Chairman, Vote 149 – Gulu University has been increased. At the same time Vote 500, which covers district primary, secondary and tertiary institutions, and district health training schools, was also included in the totals that the chairperson is reading.
When you remove Vote 500 and those four items, the totals for recurrent expenditure is Shs 92,025,308,000, and for development expenditure it is Shs 118,697,856,000. The reduction is because the sums under Vote 500 will be budgeted for under the Vote of the Local Government. I beg to move.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you.
MRS HYUHA: I hope the Minister of Education is listening so that before we pronounce ourselves we do not leave any figure behind. Given experience, Mr Chairman, I would like the Minister of Education to first agree before I move the motion. Is this agreeable, what the Minister of Finance has read?
THE CHAIRMAN: No, but since the items have been read, it is a question of addition that we shall do later. What is important are the particulars of each vote given. Once particulars are given, the addition of the total will not be a problem.
MR MWESIGWA RUKUTANA: Mr Chairman, I want to allay the fears of the chairperson and the honourable members that this reconciliation has been done jointly by the technical staff of the Ministries of Education and Finance.
THE CHAIRMAN: I have consulted the Chairperson of the Local Governments Committee to find out whether these other votes, which have not been read, will be considered by him, and the answer is affirmative. Therefore, there is nothing lost. This Vote 500 will be considered when we are dealing with the report on Local Governments. That is the explanation.
MRS HYUHA: I want to thank the Minister of Finance but given our experience, yesterday we were losing some figures so we have rectified that. Mr Chairman, with these corrections by the Minister of Finance, I beg to move as he has advised this august House. I beg to move.
THE CHAIRMAN: Honourable members, we shall have a few comments and then get responses from the Ministers for Gender and then for Education. To give chance to many of you to contribute, we shall restrict ourselves to four minutes. It could also be one minute or two.
REV. KEFA SSEMPANGI (Ntenjeru South, Kayunga): Mr Chairman, I will confine myself to the remarks on page 31 about the Ministry of Gender. I want to thank the committee for the good work and the observations they have made.
On page 31, there is a remark that there are mushrooming institutions, schools and orphanages, claiming to be taking care of HIV/AIDS orphans and other vulnerable children. The committee noted the public outcry that some of these institutions are instead abusing the rights of orphans. Mr Chairman, I want to say that yesterday the Minister of Health proposed a Vote of over Shs 19 billion for NGOs that are dealing with health units. I am wondering why the Ministry of Gender cannot borrow a leaf from the Ministry of Health and assist these NGOs that are trying to work with children.
In my own constituency, there is a lady who was working with TASO. When she retired she took her package and bought a house in my constituency in Maligita. She collected children who lost their parents to HIV/AIDS – 80 children. To date this lady is receiving no assistance from anywhere! I think we should give credit where it is due and sympathize with these people who are making their own effort. This lady is using her own savings to look after children. What is the ministry or the Government doing on its part?
Mr Chairman, there is also the fact that Uganda is a signatory to the UN Convention of 1990 about taking care of orphans and vulnerable children. And our 1995 Constitution says the same. To date, this policy is not in place and they promised here that it would be done expeditiously. This is 13 years after and to-date there is no policy for orphans and vulnerable children. I think this is not fair. A child who was ten years old in 1990 is over 23 years old now and is not a child anymore. How many children are dying or have died without taking advantage of this policy?
Mr Chairman, about the Witchcraft Act of 1957, there was no correction of this Act. I was looking through my papers and I came across this Act. The introduction says, “For purposes of this Act, witchcraft does not include bona fide spirit worshippers”.
Who is a spirit worshipper? The people who are causing ritual killings of our children are devil worshippers; they are spirit worshippers! Who is a bona fide spirit worshipper? Who is not touched when they cut the throats of our children, amputate them and they are dying? So, there is need to rectify this situation, otherwise we are going to continue losing children because of these unqualified worshippers.
Mr Chairman, about the children who were taken to Bitabika, I am very happy this was done; the ministry did good work. Four hundred and sixty four (464) children were taken. But I want to ask, was this a one-time event? Today children are re-grouping on the streets, so what happens? You go to Masese and the children are there from Karamoja and other places. What is happening?
Mr Chairman, I ask the ministry to continue with this work. They should also have a national policy because these children are not only in Kampala, they are in Kasese at the borders and they need assistance.
Finally, there is an increased number of mothers whose children are on the streets. What is going to happen now? While UPE says education is free, it is not compulsory. So, the lawmakers find it very difficult to arrest these women because there is no law providing for the arrest of a mother who is keeping the child on the street. So, the sooner we have these laws in place the better.
MR WILFRED KAJEKE (Youth Representative, Eastern): Thank you, Mr Chairman. I would like to thank the committee for their in-depth report. They have given us a very good report; Mr Chairman, professional teachers rarely go wrong.
I am rising on a point of concern on the National Youth Council. The youth of this country have contributed a lot to this country from time immemorial. I will recite recent examples. During the NRA struggle, many of the combatants were the youth and they brought liberation to this country. They brought liberty to this country but they have been forgotten. It is always unwise to undermine the efforts of those who have contributed to liberation, especially where blood is included. (Interruption)
CAPT. STEVEN BASALIZA: I would like to inform hon. Kajeke that the fact about youth having fought has not been forgotten. I was promoted to a captain and you are now a Member of Parliament. Thank you very much.
MR KAJEKE: That information notwithstanding, Mr Chairman, the 1993 National Youth Council Statute was allocated Shs 800,000,000. The trend now is for the figure to go down; it is now Shs 148,000,000. and I suppose next financial year we shall be having nothing. If we go with this trend, then I propose that instead of having institutions that are not facilitated, we better do away with them. Because it is useless to have institutions in place and yet they are not facilitated. Even voluntary work needs some facilitation.
Mr Chairman, I want to emphasize this point of undermining the youth of this country. When we ask for elections to the National Youth Council, the Minister always tells us that she was waiting for the amendment of the Statute. The amendment was done months ago but up to now, the elections have not been held. I do not know what is happening. The Minister should tell these members what is happening.
Mr Chairman, I would also like to emphasize the committee’s recommendation that instead of allocating Shs 148,000,000 they should in fact disburse Shs 514,000,000 as per the certificate of financial implications. Unless the Ministry of Finance is saying that this certificate of financial implications is just for show or for formality. I would to like to say that we shall follow this to the logical conclusion. This Shs 514,000,000 should be disbursed to the youth.
Mr Chairman, I appreciate the efforts of the Ministry of Education in terms of the bursary scheme, but I would like to remind the Minister of Education that last year in Jinja, during the students international day, he raised our hopes that the loan scheme for those students joining higher institutions of learning was about to come. I have perused through the report but there is nothing of the sort. What is happening? I do not want to add the Professor to the list of those other professors because I always take his words as the truth. Thank you, Mr Chairman.
DR OKOT ALEX (Moroto County, Lira): Thank you very much, Mr Chairman. I have just two points I would like to consider, one of them is about the recommendations given by Parliament to the Government. I wish government would take these recommendations very seriously because I think it is foresight by Parliament, which links government directly with the interests of the local population. So if government wants its policies to be successful, these recommendations should be taken very seriously.
We note with concern this issue of over expenditure. However, I am more concerned about the issue of UPE and USE. We started this UPE programme in 1997 and from that time, so many children have qualified for secondary education. Many of these children, however, have been left at the mercy of businessmen who have started doing business in secondary education. These are bright children; they are the future generation of this country - have qualified for secondary education. Many of these children, however, have been left at the mercy of businessmen who have started doing business in secondary education. These are bright children; they are the future generation of this country and they are left at the mercy of businessmen! I think Government should take this seriously.
Concerning the budget for secondary and tertiary education, there should be no reduction. I think we shall hold Government responsible in the next budget if there is a reduction. We may not approve the next budget of Ministry of Education if we find that the money allocation for secondary and tertiary education is being cut.
We cannot accept improvement at UPE and imagine that these children, after they qualify from UPE, are mature enough to build this country. We should work together as Government to make sure that they mature also at the secondary and tertiary level so that we breed good citizens for this country.
Secondly, as concerns grant-aiding schools, I want to recommend that government should become very serious with this programme. Here we have parents who have worked hard to make sure that they construct schools, offices for the headmaster and so on. What these parents are asking for is that Government comes in so that they are able to give salary to their teachers, provide for their necessities so that there is quality education.
Most of the schools that are doing their own constructions are rural schools. The parents know that their children cannot go to town to study, so they prefer to have these secondary schools in their sub-counties. That is why they have to construct. So poor as they are, they construct schools so that their children can afford secondary education.
Government should in turn come here strongly and make sure that every financial year they take seriously these community schools, which are constructed especially in the rural areas. Government should grant-aid these schools so that our poor children in the villages are able to afford secondary education. This is a cheaper way, other than building seed schools.
I do not know why government should concentrate on seed schools and forget the efforts of the local population in the rural areas, who are doing their best to construct their schools. I thank you.
DR KASIRIVU ATWOOKI (Bugangaizi County, Kibaale): Thank you Mr Chairman. I want to thank the committee for a good report.
I want the committee to take very seriously what they mention on page 44 of the report and later come back with a more convincing answer. They should tell us how children who were 2.1 million in 1997 have now dropped to 481,000. The reasons, which have been given for this big drop, are absenteeism, lack of meals at school, immigrations and early marriages.
Mr Chairman, if a child is absent and tomorrow he or she comes, they will still be part of the school; they have not yet dropped out. When someone migrates, he will join another school somewhere else. So, Mr Chairman, I am not yet convinced that these answers that were given by the Ministry of Education are convincing enough to account for three quarters of the school dropouts.
I would like the committee to do more probing on this matter. That is why, Mr Chairman, I am also doubtful about the figure of 7.3 million children in our schools; is it really true? The committee should do more homework for us.
Mr Chairman, any civil servant is entitled to, and has ambitions to, get more training and get more qualifications. So, I want to thank the committee for emphasizing that teachers who want to go for further training should be protected. Today there are many people in Government who started out as certificate holders and through a series of trainings they have attained degrees, including PhDs. So, teachers who are supposed to help our children should be given softer terms when they want to go for further training.
Mr Chairman, I want to thank Government for introducing the bursary scheme. This is affirmative action, so that our children from disadvantaged areas can also get helped. However, what I want the chairperson of the committee to tell me and this Parliament is why the report is silent about our famous decentralized admission to public universities, which was unanimously passed by this Parliament. Does the silence in this report mean that the ministry is going to implement it or is it being shelved? I require an answer to that.
Lastly, Mr Chairman, I want to thank government for building new secondary schools. But as they build new secondary schools, is it their quiet policy to ignore the old secondary schools? Some of these old schools require assistance and rehabilitation. In particular, I am thinking about St Edwards Secondary School – (Interruption)
MS HYUHA: Mr Chairman, when hon. Kasirivu says the committee is silent, I wonder whether he has read page 61, the third last bullet. It says, “The delay to start the implementation of the quota system in public universities as earlier indicated on page 27 of the Policy Statement of the financial year 2002/2003, and the report of the Social Services committee passed by Parliament on 16 May 2003 in the 2nd session. The committee was informed that the Ministry of Education and Sports is yet to consult Cabinet over this subject”.
DR KASIRIVU ATWOOKI: Thank you, madam chairperson. That is why an alert chairperson is necessary. It makes me get even more annoyed that a matter, which was passed in the last session, has not reached Cabinet. At least we would have been informed that it is on the agenda of Cabinet. Let me preserve my anger.
Mr Chairman, lastly – (Interjection) - Mr Chairman, can you protect me from hon. Kamuntu of Sheema – (Interruption)
THE CHAIRMAN: Hon. Kamuntu, be a good neighbour. (Laughter).
DR KASIRIVU: Mr Chairman, I am thinking of St Edwards Bukumi and honestly, I would like an answer as to whether the ministry wants to build new schools as the old ones collapse, so that we know that this is their policy. Otherwise, the spirit of St Edwards Bukumi will keep haunting the Ministry of Education for as long as it is not attended to. I thank you, Mr Chairman.
MR JOSEPH KULE MURANGA (Busongora North, Kasese): Thank you very much, Mr Chairman, for seeing me at last. I have three points to make.
One, I want to comment on the youth centres. In the 1960s, Government built five centres for the Ministry of Culture and Community Development, and one of them is in my constituency. These centres were meant to train the youth so that they get skills and learn how to survive. But as we speak, Mr Chairman, all the five youth training centres are in shambles.
I have tried several times to approach the Ministry of Gender to allow us to use these buildings, so that we can use our own money and train our youth. Up to now, we have been hitting a dead end. We do not have these facilities and the youth have become a problem. When they finish Senior Four, they have nowhere to go and all of them come to the towns to look for employment, which they cannot get because they lack skills.
I would like the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development to reconsider opening these youth training institutes. I know the subjects they used to offer included carpentry, brick laying and others that were very vital to their development and that of society. So, Mr Chairman, I hope this will be considered. (Interruption)
MS BINTU JALIA: Thank you very much hon. Kule Muranga. I would like to inform the honourable member that there is one of the prominent youth centres in Masindi District, by the names of Kabalye Settlement School. It had a big chunk of land with infrastructure but today some of that infrastructure is nowhere to be seen, and the youth even do not know where it is located. Thank you.
MR KULE MURANGA: Thank you very much for such information. I said they are five in number and none of them is functional. So, you are confirming what I said. Thank you very much.
The second point is about secondary education. To me it sounds very funny to go and open a seed school, where you are going to put up buildings and put in a lot of money, when we have so many schools that parents have opened. In my constituency, for example, I have more than 20 secondary schools manned by parents and only two are government-aided.
I believe we would spend less money if we utilized the buildings, which the parents have put up. So, I would like to urge the Ministry of Education to consider taking up schools, which are already there, instead of opening more seed schools. I think that one would be simpler for us.
My third point is about the cultural policy. Mr Chairman, in the Rwenzori region we have had a lot of problems because of lack of a cultural policy, which should be in place. Whenever we go for elections, people use the cultural aspect and a lot of commotion is caused by those who are pro and those who are anti. I believe if there were a law to govern this aspect, some of the problems and exchanges we normally get would be minimized. Even the President gave instructions so that we can have a law that can help us resolve these problems, but up to now there is no law.
Mr Chairman, it is our humble prayer, as people from the Rwenzori region, that this law should be put in place so that we can resolve our problems and then settle down properly. Thank you, Mr Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
MRS MARGARET BABA DIRI (Representative of Persons with Disabilities): Thank you very, Mr Chairman. I hope you will give me more time because I have a number of issues I would like to raise from the reports of both Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development and that of Education. These issues are very important to persons with disability.
I would like to thank the members and chairperson of the Social Services Committee for the work well done. Until I left the Committee on Social Services this year, I did not know how much work members of that committee do. They handled three policy statements and they really worked very hard to bring their reports among the first. So, I would like to congratulate my ex-members.
Mr Chairman, I would like to thank the Minister of Gender, Labour and Social Development for, at long last, bringing the National Council for Disability Bill to this House. It was passed on 15 May 2003. That is a historical date for persons with disability, which we shall never forget.
Mr Chairman, the report has not talked much about the National Council for Disability. The only statement made is that the bill has been passed and the Council will be established. How the Council is going to be established, with which funds and when, has not been elaborated at all.
We passed this bill with all the jubilation on the 15th of May, but up to now people with disability are wondering where it is. Has it been assented to? Where is it hiding? That is the question I would like the Minister of Gender, Labour and Social Development to answer very clearly in this august House. People with disability are anxiously waiting for the fate of this bill so that they are rest assured that the bill has been passed and it will be established.
Mr Chairman, as I read through the policy statement, the objectives of the Council are clearly stated. But when it comes to the funding part of it, I am not a financial person and I do not understand when they say we have 12 billion shillings projected this year, 48 million shillings projected next year and beyond, and yet Government has not approved. I do not understand those figures. The Social Services Committee should have explained to me as a layperson why that money has not been approved. Now that it has not been explained, I would like the minister to give an explanation. It has given me a feeling that there is no money for this sector. I would like you to assure the ministry that they will get the money. When we passed this bill we stated clearly that there are funds for 2003/2004, 2004/2005 and 2006. Is that money there or it is not there, please explain, so that our anxiety comes down.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FINANCE, GENERAL DUTIES (Mr Mwesigwa Rukutana): Thank you, hon. Baba Diri, for giving way. This is a very important matter, but I want to allay your fears by saying that, yes, the bill was passed in May but as we talk now it has not yet been assented to. We are committed that the moment it is assented to, we shall raise money by way of supplementary provision for the start-up activities and the rest of the money will be granted next financial year. I thank you.
DR KASIRIVU ATWOOKI: Thank you, Mr Chairman. I think it is better to inform the Minister of Finance that after 30 days, if a bill has not been returned to Parliament then it is as good as in the process of being assented to; so, he should immediately look for funds.
MRS BABA DIRI: Thank you very much, honourable members for giving me the information. Actually my question stands, why has it taken so long to assent to this bill?
I would like to talk about Community Based Rehabilitation (CBR). As mentioned in the policy statement, community-based rehabilitation is a very important programme for people with disabilities. If they have to be independent and integrate with other people, Government has to release funds for Community Based Rehabilitation. It is only in 12 districts and there is no work taking place in those 12 districts. The district I am aware of is Tororo where NAADS is still giving money for a number of activities.
Last year we suggested that Community Based Rehabilitation, since it is one of the sectors, which alleviate poverty, should be given PAF money. We endeavoured together with the ministry to come up with a strategic investment plan. Where is this plan and when will CBR be given money?
Mr Chairman, regarding the rehabilitation centres, I think they are just maintaining the status quo. How long does it take to restructure the rehabilitation centres? Why is this restructuring affecting the rehabilitation centres for people with disability and not other departments? I would like the minister to explain to us why they are not carrying out the restructuring, and if it is carrying out the restructuring, why are they not releasing funds for this sector?
Let me now move to education, which is also very important. I would like to thank the ministry for establishing the two special schools promised by the President. I was informed and even given a copy by the Minister of State for Primary Education that the two schools were established: one is going to be in Gulu for the physically handicapped and other for the blind people will be in Mukono. In the policy statement and the report there is nothing mentioned about it. Is that statement from the ministry? Why is it not put in the policy statement so that it can be covered this year?
I would like to comment about the qualifications the blind persons require to join institutions. It has been mentioned that for a person to qualify to be trained as a teacher, he or she must pass mathematics. I must explain this problem. People who are blind have problems of passing mathematics. It is not that we are dull - I am a mathematician myself; I used to teach mathematics as well. The problem is that the blind who are children are not taught mathematics very well. The figures, which are written, are not clearly explained to them.
In Kyambogo University Special Needs Education branch, one special teacher covers all subjects. You teach sign language; you teach Braille; you teach mentally retarded students. You end up not concentrating and as a result you lack skills for teaching the blind children. So when it comes to the exams, they fail. I would like to assure you that the blind are the best teachers. Therefore, is it fair for you to eliminate blind persons from the teaching profession and other things because of not passing mathematics, which is not their fault?
We are talking about affirmative action and here is a genuine affirmative action. I would really like the Ministry of Education to reconsider and give affirmative action for those blind persons who have passed very well but have not passed mathematics. After all, you do not have to teach all the subjects in primary or secondary school. Thank you very much. I wanted to talk more, but you have cut me short.
DR MATOVU BYATIKE (Entebbe Municipality, Wakiso): Thank you very much, Mr Chairman. I will start off by thanking the committee for a good report. The presentation was brilliant.
Secondly, page 49 about the admission of candidates to the Teacher Training Colleges. I do not know whether these are ordinary passes or credits. Okay, I have got it.
Thirdly, on page 51, they talk about sub-county leadership. That is a bit too vague, I think we should be more specific when we talk about leadership. I was thinking in terms of a specially appointed committee of respectable citizens rather than just talking of the leadership. One might mistake this for the political leadership or religious leadership or what. So, I think we better be more specific and get that straight.
On page 55, the report talks about the result of 300 mathematics teachers. This is a very good idea, but I am just wondering whether we have all these teachers ready for recruitment. I wonder because so many schools can say, “This is the experience I have had in Entebbe, if you can get me a mathematics teacher, I will be happy”. I have got so many of these people so it cannot be that they are flooding. I probably have the wrong impression of those who are not recruited. But if they are not there, just in case I go along with my theory or my impression, then why don’t we start a kind of affirmative action for mathematicians. There are mathematicians who are poor historians or weak in English. We can start a kind of UNISE for these extra bright children and teach them an earlier kind of specialization. I think we will have really trained mathematicians who are good at that subject.
Finally, I welcome the change of heart on the part of the Ministry of Finance about that development figure for Makerere University retaining it at 16.855. This changes the impression we have of the mean Ministry of Finance when it comes to this point. I think they have done a very good job. This will take care of the overcrowding at Makerere. I think if we give them this figure they would do something about the infrastructure, accommodation and the acute shortages of laboratory equipment at campus and medical school. So, I think this is a very good idea. Well done, Ministry of Finance. Thank you very much, Mr Chairman.
MR MOSES LUBOWA (Budiope county, Kamuli): Thank you very much, Mr Chairman. I also wish to thank the Committee on Social Services for maintaining the standard of its presentation. In fact it would have been a grand mistake if you restricted the chairperson to two terms. We would have missed her better performance during her third term. (Laughter). I also wish to thank the ministry for regularly updating this august House on the developments in the ministry and all the leaders at the various levels.
I am going to focus more on secondary education sub-sector notwithstanding the fact that primary education is so essential because it increases literacy levels of the masses. We, however, need to note that the quality of education at primary school level is highly compromised by the nature of the teachers that teach at that level of education. They are the products of secondary education responsible for the standard of education at primary school level. Therefore, it is very important that we consider secondary education as a very important aspect to look at now.
I want to begin talking about the Government move to have a secondary school in every sub-county of Uganda. We are told they are about 1,000 but only 17 Seed secondary schools have been constructed. I am particularly concerned about the principle followed. It has been stated that there is a criterion of selecting sites for Seed secondary schools in a sub-county without a government-aided secondary school at all. Since financial year 2001/2002, a total of 17 Seed secondary schools have been completed and coded by Ministry of Public Service. These include the number indicated.
I have already expressed to the Minister of Education the anomalies that took place in the Namugongo sub-county of Kamuli district - I know this will not hurt my brother - I feel the ministry should reconsider it because the criterion has been abused. In the sub-county where we have Namugongo Secondary School we have more than four Government-aided secondary schools. When I talked to the minister, he said it should have been the district leadership to decide but then things were changed in the ministry. This is what I discovered from the commissioners. I think we need to take this up, honourable minister. Namugongo sub-county has more than three government-aided secondary schools. (Interruption)
MR MULENGANI: Mr Chairman, thank you very much, hon. Lubowa for giving way. I am seeking clarification from you regarding the allocation of the school to Namugongo. Can you kindly update us on where the previous location was meant to be? Thank you.
MR LUBOWA: In Kamuli district they are about four sub-counties without government-aided secondary schools, and of these, Nkondo sub-county was selected, which happens to be in my constituency. You can see Budiope constituency is the most backward county in that district and in Busoga as whole. The reason why the people of Budiope support this Government is because it came in to redress those ills that were created by history, and now when we see such things happening we get disappointed.
Mr Chairman, about secondary education, I am concerned about the slow pace at which these schools are being constructed, because only 17 out of 1,000 have been constructed. I would suggest that other than coming in to construct the secondary schools you better construct Government aid school, like hon. Mulengani was suggesting, and at least a minimum of 12 teachers in every secondary school such that every sub-county will have 12 secondary school teachers on payroll.
MR MAWIYA: Thank you very much, hon. Lubowa for giving way. I wanted to inform the member holding the Floor that when we talk about funding or aiding schools, it seems as if Government or the ministry does not have a maximum ceiling. You find that schools like Kibuli, Buddo, Nabisuna, and Gayaza charging over Shs400,000 and yet these schools are said to be fully government aided. So, are we sure that people are going to afford. I just want to be clarified by the minister.
MR WAMBUZI GAGAWALA: I would like to request hon. Lubowa not to refer to Namugongo secondary school because he knows the position of the people of Bulamogi and how they are not sharing fairly at all in Kamuli district to the extent that everyday we are clamouring for a district status because our teachers are not even receiving salary. (Laughter).
THE CHAIRMAN: I think, honourable members, we have heard a lot about this Bulamogi. I would appeal to the front bench to go and examine this because it is coming on every time, so that if there is a need for a special consideration is given because everyday hon. Gagawala has to stand to lament on what is going on. We do not know whether it is an exaggeration or it is a true fact. Please, take a study so that we really get to know what is happening.
MR LUBOWA: Thank you very much, Mr Chairman. The impression I get from my honourable colleague is that having failed to get a district status he managed to get a school from Budiope. So, it is better you give him a district so that Budiope can be safe. I think that is all I have had to say about secondary school education. Thank you very much.
CAPT. STEVEN BASALIZA (Burahya County, Kabarole): Thank you, Mr Chairman. I would like also to join my colleagues to thank the committee chaired by hon. Dorothy Hyuha, in her third term, for having done a very good job. I do not mind her serving the next two years.
I am rising on a point of morals for school teachers. Last year there were many strikes and I participated in cooling down the teachers who were on strike. I am happy that the ministry now has thought of increasing the salaries for the teachers to Shs 113,000. The Minister of Education and Sports, Hon. Kiddu Makubuya, must be recommended.
There is also some discontent about teachers who go for upgrading. When they come back to their schools they are not considered for promotion. It is very embarrassing for a teacher who has attained Grade V to work under a Grade III teacher. We should look at this because it is unprofessional.
I am rising on another issue, which is very crucial, where seed school were diverted to a municipality, which has many schools. I know my brother, hon. Araali Basaliza, gained but I lost. This issue was very bad for the people of Mugusu where the school was supposed to be located. For sure, I understood Mugusu had another secondary school but there are two other sub-counties in the district: One is Kichwamba in my constituency and another one is in Buheesi in the constituency of hon. Adolf Mwesige. I inquired though the minister and his team have deliberately refused to answer me, which is also a bit of indiscipline because a Member of Parliament relating to you should have a courtesy to answer.
I have written to many ministers like hon. Akaki, he has replied, Prof. Kabwegyere has replied and Eng. Nasasira but the Ministry of Education and its technocrats seem to be a bit arrogant. So, whenever Members of Parliament write to you, you should have the courtesy to explain, because it does not cost you anything. I think that one, Mr minister, you should look into it so that we avoid conflict. When the ministry staff started explaining, they said it is district officials who decided to take that school.
MR MULENGANI: Thank you, Mr Chairman, and Capt. Basaliza for giving way. At this rate the objectives of the economy are going to be derailed and if we lack consistency in the policies of implementing Government objectives, it is very disastrous. Hon. Lubowa from Budiope has just raised a complaint of locating a seed secondary school amongst four government-aided secondary schools. Another member is raising a similar concern. The Ministry of Education had a policy of selecting seed schools. I benefited in Bugiri and Sigulu Island. I actually have no problem as to the location factor that was considered.
Now if hon. Basaliza is still continuing to say that local schools in his area were not really abiding and therefore not consistent with the policy of location of seed schools then where are we heading in this country? I am therefore seeking clarification that if this is the trend then let them update us in writing on what policy they considered in locating seed schools and wherever seed schools are located in that area. What other Government schools are located in those particular areas? I thank you, Mr Chairman.
CAPT. BASALIZA: Thank you hon. Mulengani. I think you are adding on my point and I am happy about it. So I am going to be a bit brief. I would like the minister and his staff to tell us the criteria they used to allocate these schools. If they allege that it is the district officials, is the district above the ministry headquarters? District or local council governments are not policy implementers. They are supposed to follow what the Government has done. By the way, this is even sabotaging Government programmes: These seed schools were started by the Government, and more so the Movement Government to sow the seeds of education in rural areas. How can you bring those seed schools to a municipality? When I investigated I found out that it was collaboration between the local council officials and the Ministry headquarters. That one can be investigated. I wrote to the minister and gave a copy to IGG. We are not going to allow these seed schools to be diverted for the interests of a few individuals.
Finally, corruption, as regards shoddy work; the local council officials in collaboration with the headquarters in Kampala are making a lot of money out of that and this can be proved. In some areas, for a school to be awarded a tender to construct a Shs 4 million structure, there must be some of money left at the headquarters. I am not attacking anybody; I want the ministers to know this. Ministers are scapegoats; they do not know what is happening. They are our colleagues and I am not attacking them. I want them to know, Mr Chairman.
I would like to even fore warn the minister that I have heard a rumour that some Shs 49 million is supposed to be given to Meteorology Training School in Entebbe. These schools are now under Ministry of Education and already some people from the Ministry Headquarters have demanded for Shs20 million so that some shoddy work is done. Please investigate this matter. I thank you very much, Mr Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN: I think I said hon. Anang-Odur followed by Dr Esele. But before you proceed I would like to introduce our children from Tirinyi Primary school, Ngora County. You are welcome!
MR ANANG-ODUR (Kwania County, Apac): Thank you, Mr Chairman. I have a few comments to make. I wish to thank the committee for a good report. First, I want to draw the attention of the minister the danger of the wide disparity between payments of salaries for headteachers and the ordinary teachers. In some cases headteachers and headmistresses are earning more than Shs 300,000 while the ordinary teachers are earning sometimes below Shs 100,000 and others Shs 70,000. This to me is a very serious matter.
I went to my constituency and there are a lot of complaints from the teachers. I think it needs immediate redress. There is a delay in accessing payroll. I think this is a serious matter, which must also be dealt with immediately.
I also think these two factors must be responsible for the high school dropouts in primary schools.
In our report, it is noted that in 1997 2.1 million pupils enrolled in primary schools but in 2003 only 481,000 completed primary seven. If you look at this disparity, it is a very serious concern, which I think we, as Parliament, must take very seriously.
MR DOMBO: Thank you very much, Mr Chairman and honourable colleague for giving way. On the issue of dropout in enrolment in the UPE programme, recently there was a stakeholder’s workshop in which the head of state addressed and made a pronouncement about payment that nobody should pay for meals at school. When you read the report, one of the reasons given for the dropout in the schools is lack of meals at school. This is a technical observation by the technical people in the Ministry of Education, but this is a political directive.
I have taken research around Kampala, Mr Chairman, for instance, in Shimon, the children pay Shs 10,000 for lunch. When you divide this by the 80 days in a term, each child pays Shs 125 for a meal of posho and fried beans and at times meat. And the President is saying people should not pay, they should carry their own food, which becomes even more expensive for a parent. So, this is a contradiction that must be clearly streamlined, because the pronouncements that goes down to the constituency in the rural schools are at times misunderstood and they even create bigger problems for the UPE programme.
So, Mr Chairman, I would like the minister to clarify to us, what is the policy and the position on UPE? Should we encourage our parents to pay for the food so that the dropout rate can reduce and the enrolment stays higher? This is a question that must be answered so that the head of state too is better technically advised so that he makes a correct pronouncement. I thank you very much.
MRS ISANGA NAKADAMA: I would like also to supplement on hon. Dombo’s point on the meals. In fact you are talking about children who bring meals at school, those ones in town. But for our rural children, they have been advised to carry leftovers. I do not know if a child can survive on that at school? What policy is that? Maybe Government should also come up with something to advise us on what we can do? Hygienically, is that okay?
MR ANANG-ODUR: Mr Chairman, I hope the Ministry of Health will not certify the consumption of leftovers by our children, because I fear it could cause some health problems.
Mr Chairman, the other matter that I wanted to draw the minister’s attention to, is the matter of overcrowding at Makerere University. I have heard but I have not personally witnessed it, that at Makerere University in some cases, some students attend lectures through windows because there is not enough space in the lecturer rooms. It is true that there is a lot of overcrowding? This is not good in our universities.
My concern on the issue of quota system at Makerere University and other public universities has been provoked by the way the Minister has written in his letter forwarding the report. In his letter, which is on page 2 of the ministerial statement, the Minister is saying that the conceptive process is due to be finalised with authoritative decisions of Cabinet. If and when approved, interventions will be structured into a strategic plan for higher education in 2003/04; preparations are in advanced stages.
When we were debating this issue on the Floor of this Parliament in response to many concerns by Members about this matter, the Minister of State for Higher Education then had this to say and I am quoting the Hansard. She said: “But we did say that with this input from Parliament, we should now be able to go to Cabinet and have Cabinet stamp of approval so that we can move forward.”
Now, if you look at the two statements, the one of the minister is putting the matter to “if.” In other words, Cabinet can decide to refuse or to accept the decision we made in this Parliament. Mr Chairman, my understanding of the working of a democratic government is that Parliament will always give principles and policies of guidance so that the Executive can put them into practice. We in this Parliament have decided that sponsorship of students at public universities should be decentralised at 40 percent and I think this one is agreed on. But this matter now is being brought forward by the minister as if we may not have it going on.
Mr Chairman, I wish to put this to the minister that this will be most unfortunate, because personally the people of Kwania are offended by the way this money is being administered. It is not fair, it is not just, and it must be corrected immediately.
Lastly, Mr Chairman, I do not think it is even right for this money to be administered from state house. I want to propose to Government that the money for education should be transferred to the Ministry of Education so that Parliament can be able to monitor what is happening from the Ministry of Education. This matter of state house is a difficult matter. It seems it is difficult for us to know what is happening in state house. If it is brought to the Ministry of Education and it is run in the way other projects and programmes are run, we shall be able to follow and know what is happening.
I suggest that if we are not in agreement, I think the money for sponsorship will have to be stopped. I cannot see any reason why we agree as Parliament that we do a certain thing in a certain way and Government decides to ignore us and we are the taxpayers and we are representing the taxpayers. If it is not done, I will come back to say, we stop it. Thank you very much.
THE CHAIRMAN: Please, four minutes, because we are to wind up this before 2.00 p.m.
DR PETER ESELE (Bukedea County, Kumi): I thank you, Mr Chairman. The committee has received a lot of thanks before, but I think one more is not harmful. So, I also thank them. I also would like to thank you, Mr Chairman, for the recognition I received yesterday on the Committee on Agriculture.
Mr Chairman, driving around Kampala and other urban centres, you see a lot of privately owned schools, both primary and secondary, I commend this. But when you look at some of these schools closely, you see very unfortunate circumstances. Some of them are in residential houses, others are situated behind shops, some of them do not have recreational facilities; there is no provision of fields for children to do sports and games. Some of them even do not have adequate sanitary facilities. I would like to request the Ministry of Education that before they license a school, they should actually inspect the facilities and make sure that they are adequate.
I am very concerned about the difference in the performance in examination between the schools in urban centres and those in upcountry locations. Schools in Kampala are performing very well while those in upcountry locations perform very badly. What is the reason? What is in Kampala, which is not in the upcountry schools? Could the Ministry of Education, please, undertake a study and find out the reason for this disparity and please correct the imbalance.
Mr Chairman, my constituency benefited from the seed secondary school scheme. There is a school being built in Kidongole, but there are two problems. One, for the last six months, the construction has stalled. So, it is still incomplete. Secondly, there is a problem of teachers. At present there are 12 teachers, but it is only two of them who are appointed and are being paid by the Ministry of Education. The rest are still a burden to the parents, we have to dig deeper into our pockets in order to raise money to pay for the extra teachers. So, I would like to request the Ministry of Education to please hasten the process of recruiting teachers for this school.
MRS HYUHA: I thank, Dr Esele, for giving way. I was wondering whether Dr Esele had read pages 54 to 55, where the committee together with Public Service, Education and Finance have reallocated shs.4.6 billion for the recruitment of teachers. And one of the areas is to recruit a minimum of 12 teachers in each of the 17 seed schools. And when you look at the list of the 17 schools which have been completed and coded by Public Service, I see here No.11 on that table page 53: Kumi District, Kidongole Secondary School – you are going to benefit with the re-allocation.
DR ESELE: Thank you for the information. I am only emphasising on the need for the process to be faster.
Mr Chairman, the delay in the implementation of the loan scheme for university students is delaying academic excellency and academic advance. Many students, especially in upcountry locations, have parents who are extremely poor; they cannot afford university education. But they are extremely bright, they are capable, but it is only the problem of finance. The faster this scheme is implemented, the much better for these students. Otherwise, many of them are going back to the villages or to the institutions of lower academic standards and we lose them.
Mr Chairman, I would like to emphasise the need for a university in the East. We need a university in Eastern Uganda. Could we have a university this year? Thank you.
MRS MINDRA JOYO (Woman Representative, Moyo): Thank you, Mr Chairman. I thank the committee for the report well presented. I am concerned about the field of education. First of all, we are grateful in Moyo District to this Government because as far as primary education is concerned, there are very many primary schools in about every six kilometres. We are very grateful for that.
But the second issue is the quality of education. Right now we do not have enough primary school teachers. Some of those who are teaching are those who have just left ‘O’ level and are not professional teachers. So, the quality of education is not so good.
Recently, the DEO of Moyo came to the Ministry of Public Service; they wanted to scrap off even those teachers who are not trained. But she pleaded with them and we are grateful that the Ministry of Public Service accepted to retain those for a while. So, we are still lacking teachers in that field.
Moving to secondary education, we have eight sub-counties in Moyo District and there are three secondary schools. But out of those three, the two which were started way back in the early 1960s, 1965, 1967, are getting dilapidated. Now the Government is planning for more schools, but they should also look at the old ones. Inspection is being done by the inspectors within the district. It is very rare that the Ministry of Education sends people there. I think they should also have an eye there and see what is happening on the ground so that those schools do not get too dilapidated and in the end we have no schools at all.
Concerning secondary school teachers, on page 54, on this request, there has been some shs 4.6 billion added for the recruitment of teachers although they needed more, about Shs 10 billion. Well that is a step forward. But the other day I was in the Ministry of Education and saw the education officer concerned with secondary education. I had taken some request from my district concerning recruitment of teachers. Three weeks ago, there was no answer to it yet. They say the whole thing depends on Finance. They are willing to recruit the teachers, but the money was not available. Now that we are passing this money, I hope the recruitment exercise will start very soon so that we have teachers within those schools.
Concerning the disadvantaged groups, the woman. In the earlier times, the Government gave some five million for each district as revolving fund for the women councils. But now I see Shs 45 million for all districts, which comes to approximately Shs 3.6 million per district for operational fund. Now, what about this kind of revolving fund? Has it been scrapped off? I would like clarification, because although the money was little, that one was helping women to do something. So, I would like a clarification whether that operational fund includes something for women or it is just for running offices.
Lastly, concerning functional adult literacy. In the past, those who did not have the chance to go to school, used to be taught through the community development department. The community department still exists. We have trained literacy instructors who have been given some facilitation like bicycles and so on, but they are poorly facilitated. Last year, these instructors were just working on voluntary basis. So, they would draw a programme to teach the group about twice or three times a week for about an hour or two but they do not have even soap or anything to buy a nail to fix the bicycle after they have moved around.
So, I hope more funds will be given to these people so that they work with a good heart. Otherwise, most of them are women teaching their fellow women who are mostly illiterate and a few men are within groups at least in my district. So, we thank the Government for the move forward but we would like more funds to be added here so that these people can work heartily and the programme does not fail. Thank you, Mr Chairman.
THE SPEAKER: Honourable members, you will appreciate that it is now 1 p.m. and two ministers have to answer, each one of them taking 20 minutes or so and then I have to read the Votes.
MR ROGERS MATTE (Ntotoko County, Bundibugyo): Thank you very much, Mr Chairman. I want to comment briefly on the two ministries and end with a general comment.
The first comment on gender is on the operationalisation of Article 246 of the Constitution concerning cultural institutions. I happen to represent a community, which is multi-ethnic. We have people who are supposed to be belonging to various kingdoms and for them one kingdom has been settled so far, but the other one has not. And that is one of the issues, which were raised by hon. Kule Muranga; it is the Rwenzori region. We are waiting to see what Government decides on that matter because the people of the Rwenzori feel that Government is against them.
The second issue, Mr Chairman, is on the children who are being abducted and exchanged for guns by the rebels as it is indicated in the report. I wanted to know whether this matter is known to Government so that they can tell us how far they have handled it. Probably to involve the international community specifically the United Nations and see whether the Government can be held answerable.
The other issue, Mr Chairman, is about the exploitation of orphans by those who are supposed to take care of them. I think this exploitation is a result of the general situation that affects poor people all over the world. I related it to a situation where even Government get exploited by other governments, like in a situation where Uganda was forced to sign a law, which probably conceals the crimes of the American soldiers just because we need aid from our big brothers. I call this bilateral exploitation.
The other issue is about money under the Entandikwa scheme. There was money, which was collected by some of the intermediary agencies; this is specifically in Budibugyo District. Some of the money under Entandikwa was paid back to the intermediary agency but this money is there and is not being used. The intermediary agency is no longer interested in handling the fund because of the problems affecting it. I wanted to know, is it possible for the district to appoint a new intermediary agency such that this fund can continue to be revolving as it is required to be?
Mr Chairman, the other comment is on education. There are several districts in this country, which the Ministry of Education knows whose people are very poor. These districts cannot attract good teachers, for instance, in my district. Is there a possibility of the Ministry of Education introducing a scheme to motivate teachers who are willing to go and work there? For instance –(Interruption)
MR MULENGANI: Thank you, Mr Chairman and thank you honourable Member for giving way. I would like to inform you that in Kalangala, the Ministry of Education is providing incentives for teachers to be able to stay on those islands. However, in Bugiri, Sigulu Islands is not benefiting. I am not surprised that Budibugyo as well is not benefiting. It may not end there; another Member may rise up to give you the same information. I would therefore request that the ministry still comes up with a uniform policy to benefit the whole country if we are really looking at developing the country at large. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: The good thing is that hon. Mulengani has travelled and has been able to traverse all the constituencies.
MR MATTE: Thank you hon. Mulengani for the information. I was thinking, Mr Chairman, that probably teachers who are willing to go to such schools could be exempted from Pay As You Earn, as an incentive for them to go and work there.
The other incentive for those schools which are coming up in such districts would be probably to construct teachers’ quarters and secondary schools; though it is not a priority nationally, but it could be an incentive for those schools. For instance, in my county, we have one major secondary school and it has a well-equipped laboratory but does not have teachers, so they cannot use this laboratory. What do we do? There are teachers who are willing to come there, but we do not have accommodation for them. Can the ministry help us?
I want also to comment about the increasing budget of UPE - (Interruption)
THE CHAIRMAN: Honourable Member, it is time.
MR MATTE: It is my last comment. The increasing cost of UPE as seen in the report; I think that cost is justified since the number of pupils in UPE schools is increasing. Even when you consider the number that was in P.1 at the introduction of UPE by the time they reach P.7 the population will have grown; more pupils would have joined.
In addition to that, as we have changes in inflation and exchange rates and the cost of living, the cost for UPE will still go up. But my worry is on the number of subjects, which are being introduced. We have heard from the report that ten subjects have been introduced out of which six will be examined as opposed to the four, which were examined. I am also informed by some people that the learning capacity of these children is limited given their age. Is it possible that we can leave other subjects to be studied as subjects of general knowledge but not to be examined? If you look at other countries like Russia, they go on to other stages without being examined and yet internationally their people continue to be hired. Some of them come to Uganda as pilots. This is a live example. Thank you, Mr Chairman.
PROF. EPHRAIM KAMUNTU (Sheema South, Bushenyi): Thank you very much, Mr Chairman. I will be very brief. First of all, I want to thank the committee for a detailed and focused report. My observations are based on page 33 and relate to the delay in producing the National Employment Policy by the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development.
Unemployment in this country is no longer a challenge; it has become a crisis. It is a crisis! You look at thousands of students graduating from schools, plus retrenched civil servants, demobilized soldiers, then you add hidden unemployment of people who should work eight hours but are only working for two or three hours. Then you have thousands of youths from every trading centre sitting from morning till evening with no jobs to do; that undermines Government policy of fighting poverty. That is because poverty can never be fought unless people are employed; and it feeds into security as well.
Some of the insecurity problems we face are partly as a result of lack of employment. Mr Chairman, the Ministry must produce a policy on employment. There is an ideological debate of saying, “We do not need a policy on employment, and people can go wherever there are jobs”, but this is not workable.
May I also ask the Ministry of Education about the displaced children in areas affected by insecurity? You should tell us what measures you have put in place to address children who should be going to school but are displaced in the affected areas. So, on this point, Mr Chairman, let there be no mistake. If there is no national policy to address all these – they call it streetology - students who stay on the streets for so long after studies. This problem must be addressed.
The second point –(Interruption)
MR WANDERA: Thank you very much my colleague for giving way. I would like to inform the House that the Ministry of Labour has done everything that is possible to have a policy in place but the Ministry of Finance is the one that is standing in the way of having an employment policy. They think we are running a free market economy and there should not be interventions - as you are saying.
So, unless this Parliament comes out with very strict sanctions against the Ministry of Finance, we shall never have an employment policy in this country. It is the same story with the labour laws. It is the Ministry of Finance that is standing in the way of these Bills coming to the House. The Ministry of Labour has considered the existing labour laws but the Ministry of Finance is standing in their way.
THE PRIME MINISTER (Prof. Apolo Nsibambi): Thank you, Mr Chairman, and I thank my friend for giving way. Many times, the Ministry of Finance has been blamed. However, this is very unfairly because whatever the Ministry of Finance does is approved by the government. So, for any leader to blame anyone for what we agree on in Parliament, it is an unprincipled approach. So, I want to make it clear –(Interruption)
MR WANDERA: Mr Chairman, the Rt. hon. Prime Minister is saying that whatever the Ministry of Finance says is the position of Cabinet. However, in the year 2000, the Ministry of Labour together with trade unions, the Employers Federation and with assistance from the ILO, did review all the existing labour laws and came out with the proposed Bills. After that exercise had been completed under the auspices of a ministry with the Executive, another ministry came up and said, “no, what you are doing is wrong”.
Is the Prime Minister in order to say that for me to say that it is the Ministry of Finance that is standing in the way I am making an unprincipled statement?
THE CHAIRMAN: No, my understanding of what the Prime Minister is saying is that there is one Government and the Ministry of Finance is within the Government. Whatever decision on the budget is eventually made, it is made by the Cabinet, and the Government includes the Ministry of Labour and that of Education, for example. I think that is what he is saying.
MR WANDERA: Mr Chairman, apparently there are disagreements between Finance and Labour Ministries. Labour has one position and Finance has another one –(Interruption)
THE CHAIRMAN: No, everything is sorted out – (Interruption)
MR WANDERA: So we are saying that –(Interruption)
THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on, please. Decisions are made in Cabinet and the Cabinet is made up of ministries. They sit, agree and maybe postpone a policy. That is how the government is run. The Ministry of Finance cannot veto a decision of Cabinet. I think that is how governments are run.
THE PRIME MINISTER (Prof. Nsibambi): Mr Chairman, you have summarized –(Laughter)– what I was going to say. Therefore, I must end my statement with these remarks. Whenever there are disagreements between the Ministry of Finance and other ministries, I harmonize them. If I fail to harmonize them, there is a Vice President. When he fails, we have a President. We have one government. Government must take responsibility for whatever decisions we make. I thank you.
PROF. KAMUNTU: Mr Chairman, I welcome the contributions to this point. Really, what is coming out of this debate is simply that the country must have an employment policy, regardless of where it comes from. It is very serious! Just walk across the country - in every trading centre you have youths sitting around from morning till evening. If you are fighting poverty, you really cannot win if people are not employed.
Furthermore, when you have a security problem related to lack of employment, it is very significant that this relationship is known and addressed. That is why I ended by asking the Minister of Education to tell us what measures he has put in place to address the problem of displaced children from schools. It is a very serious matter.
My second point relates to the challenges facing UPE. We represent constituencies and we visit these schools. By 11 O’clock the teachers, who are older than the students, will be having break tea; yes, this is true across the country. But the children they teach, who are younger, are languishing on the verandas, with absolutely nothing! I know, Mr Chairman that you are highly educated, but education is not simply a function of instructions. There are other things, including whether the child is fed!
When a child is very hungry, he is very angry, he cannot learn. Therefore, putting him in a class when he is hungry is working against learning. And indeed the accomplishment of UPE, which is supposed to lift the level of understanding of the country to a higher level, may not be achieved unless you make universal primary feeding program accompany it.
If this is not done, then UPE will never achieve its objective. We have experience elsewhere. In Kenya, the President woke up one morning and simply declared, “let there be a pint of milk for every child at school”, and it was done.
Similarly, we must - let me put it scientifically – could I ask the Ministry of Education and Sports, because there is this debate now - to come up with a policy of feeding children at school as part and parcel of UPE? This is very urgent, Mr Chairman. (Applause).
My last comment relates to the quota system in universities. I want to advise the Minister of Education and Sports to be very cautious in implementing this programme. The shortest route to the university is not through the quota system, it is through exams. And knowledge has no quota. Actually, when you think about it, knowledge has no quota and, therefore, I am advising you to be as cautious as possible in implementing this programme because it could be counter productive in the advancement of knowledge in this country. Thank you very much, Mr Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. Honourable members, I now call upon the ministers to respond. But I want to say that you have limited time. Your response should be made within 20 minutes or less.
THE MINISTER OF GENDER, LABOUR AND SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT (Mrs Zoe Bakoko Bakoru): Thank you very much, Mr Chairman. On behalf of the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development, I want to thank hon. Hyuha and her committee for the relentless support they have been giving to my ministry. My ministry, I believe, has a very clear vision, a vision that is “a better standard of living, equity and social cohesion”.
We also have a very clear mission as the lead agency and ministry in the social sector to create an enabling environment for social protection and social transformation of the communities.
We intend to do this, Mr Chairman and honourable members, through promotion and empowerment of communities so that they can actually use their own potential and skills to improve their quality of life. It will also be through the labour sector, to increase productivity and jobs; and through cultural growth and sustainable, gender responsive development.
Several questions have arisen from the committee and also from the members. You have clearly said that we do not have a lot of time and I do not intend to take a lot of time on the Floor of this Parliament. As you know me, I always go directly to my answers.
I want to thank the committee and Members of Parliament for realising that it is very crucial and important that in future the sector ministry, as the lead agency, the Ministry of Finance, Planning and Economic Development and Parliament must harmonize before allocation of resources from our small and limited envelope, to different ministries. I thank Parliament for that.
Mr Chairman, people have raised issues on policies in the ministry, which have not been developed. The first one is the employment policy. Everybody is aware of the importance of an employment policy for a country. We are also aware that if you have young people who are not employed, they are liable to engage in sex trafficking, trafficking of terrorism, and drug trafficking.
I think that the Government, within this environment of global recession where we must attract credible investors, is working towards comprehensive consultation with all the social partners. That is in order to develop policies that will not destabilise the achievements we have made so far in the macro-economic area. The Ministry is concerned that an effective policy will be developed to increase productivity in the labour sector, and decent work and employment. We are already working on externalisation of labour to replace the current kyeyo, which is also earning this country foreign exchange and currency.
I believe that as soon as we harmonise this, I will come to the Floor of this Parliament with a Bill for the employment policy. I want to urge members to bear with me. I should also say that all we need is to work together so that we have an effective policy for this country, especially in the employment sector.
The orphans and vulnerable children’s policy: Mr Chairman, having lived that experience myself - many of you may be aware that I did not practice family planning - I look after over 40 children and many of them are orphans. I can promise the House that by December this year we are going to have an orphans and vulnerable children’s policy in place in this country. (Applause).
The national cultural policy: Mr Chairman and honourable members, the first draft of this is already out. To enable us reduce the inequalities and inequity among cultural leaders, we need to harmonise the type of privileges that we are going to give to these cultural leaders. With our limited resources, I expect support and people to give encouragement to my staff of the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development. We are doing so much with a very small resource envelope.
If people cannot thank my staff, I will stand on this Floor and be recorded for thanking the staff of the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development for the sacrifices they are making in this country, and for the work that they are doing.
For the people of Kasese, as soon as you harmonise the Obusinga will be in place, and I think the Government has that goodwill.
The policy on the elderly: The Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development was working on the first draft. That has already been completed. We are working very closely with other ministries to ensure that financial implications vis-à-vis the benefits as per the impact on productivity and quality of lives of our population, is seen as a priority.
We believe that the Social Development Investment Plan, which the Ministry of Finance has agreed to, in principle, is a good investment plan. It is the first ever investment plan, which has been developed. Funding for this sector is going to increase and we are going to work closely with other sectoral ministries on it because many of these issues are cross cutting.
The Witchcraft Act: Mr Chairman and honourable members, I believe that is a Penal Code offence. My ministry has brought this to the attention of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Ministry of Justice and Constitutional Affairs.
The labour sector: the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development is, for the financial year 2003/2004 committed to the establishment of a productivity centre. The resources that have been allocated are a co-funding by the Government, to establish a Productivity Centre.
I had the privilege, a year and a half ago, to go to Norway and our partners there were willing to establish a Productivity Centre for this country. That is also one of the tools through which we are going to gauge and be able to increase and give opportunities for job creation. It is not until this year, and we are grateful, that the Ministry of Finance has allocated the co-funding. So we hope that we are going to establish a Productivity Centre for this country.
The second area is the sensitisation of workers on their rights, safety, discrimination and child labour. Hon. Apio has raised an issue here saying that our children are now completing primary education at the ages of 11 and 12. And with the policy of vocationalisation, many of the children are likely to be relegated to vocational education. Hon. Members of Parliament, if these children have three years, then it means they will complete their education at the age of 15 and be relegated, according to hon. Apio, to child labour.
Members have said here, and I should also say, that we are working together with the Ministry of Education. We are aware of this challenge and that is why the issue of Universal Secondary Education is becoming increasingly important. Our children should not end up as child labourers because of conflict of policies.
Mr Chairman, we feel that employment is a cross cutting issue. Employment can only be generated when a conducive environment, with enabling laws to improve a private sector-led economy, is promoted. We are going to work together with the social partners to ensure that laws between the workers and employers are also tackled. I am happy to say that the workers and employers are working in that direction. Tripartite laws are also being tackled; where workers, employers and the Government are working together.
The community development workers’ function: Mr Chairman, the recruitment of community development workers has only been possible in districts where PMA is being implemented. The Ministry of Agriculture was able to recognise the vital role that the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development plays in social mobilisation and community and rural development. They also recognised that this is a ministry, which will reach out to the household level.
As a result, the Ministry of Agriculture divested itself from that responsibility and gave away Shs 2 billion of their budget to the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development. That is why we have been able to recruit community development workers. I think now more people will begin to realise that the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development is the lead agency for that purpose, then we will be able to expand. For us, Mr Chairman, the saying is that, “The spirit is willing but the body is weak” because our resource envelope is small.
Rehabilitation of the community development centres: We are going to undertake rehabilitation in the districts where promotion of children and youth projects are being implemented. That is for the 18 districts, because we only have Shs 540 million, which has been budgeted for that this year.
Facilitation of functional literacy instructors: the Ministry has facilitated the instructors with bicycles. A study, which we conducted in Mbarara only, showed that if we were to give these instructors only Shs 5,000 each, they would have to get about Shs 30 million in a month or a year. But that is the only money, which Mbarara District is able to vote for that item. So, honourable members, we are aware that volunteering is becoming increasingly difficult. That is why we have been able to give bicycles to these people so that they can move and do their work.
A community-based rehabilitation project is funded under the Poverty Action Fund (PAF). I want to assure my sister, hon. Baba Diri, that the council is actually receiving Shs 439,412,000 this financial year. Unfortunately, my colleague, the Minister of Finance, probably did not know that he had given this money. That is because his resource envelope for the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development is so small that he sometimes forgets. But you should be assured that there is money, which has been given and I thank the Ministry of Finance for that.
The Ebola victims: Mr Chairman, last year we got Shs 66 million to pay survivors of the Ebola victims. I support the committee’s recommendation that money be availed so that these victims could be paid. I think my colleague is going to be able to find some money so that the Ebola victims’ survivors are paid.
Under-funding for the Semi autonomous institutions: I also support the recommendation of the committee and the concern of all the honourable members of Parliament on this. You have seen that under the Ministry of Health and that of Education where autonomous bodies have been funded, their budgets are 1,000 times that of the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development. If the Youth Councils, the Women Councils, the National Council for Children, the Libraries Board, the Industrial Court and all these must function, they should get their money. They cannot function with resources under the ceiling of the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development.
So, members should equally be able to appreciate that we are operating under limited resources and, therefore, they cannot expect the type of output from us. We are doing our best even with the meager resources. But my colleague, the Minister of Finance, has said that since they issued us the certificates, they will look around and see how they will facilitate these institutions. I hope it is not just going to be “looking around” but that some money will be provided, like it has been provided for the National Disability Council, so that these councils can function.
Honourable members, if we are going to talk about improving quality of lives of Ugandans, these are the organisations that will reach down to the grassroots. These are the units, which will reach up to the households. I believe in the late 1980s and early 1990s, the immunisation rate increased because of social mobilisation, not by Ministry of Health but by communities. I believe in working together, and our ministry, which has a community development function, can be able to do a lot to improve on these areas.
On the national library, we have already held very fruitful discussions with UMI and land is already available. I think we are going to move forward and we will construct a national library for this country.
The National Social Security Fund is now expeditiously paying beneficiaries. The issue of 60 years will be resolved as the STG continues to finalize its work. When a person gets out of a job, according to the recommendation, whose discussion I do not want to pre-empt, they should be earning some money. They should be getting some money, rather than getting out of a job and, as my brother said, going to the streets and they get nothing. You would have to wait until you are 60 years, and when you get employment again you continue to contribute to the fund.
The National Social Security Fund must have a balance on the returns of workers money, which they must invest. For us in the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development, we believe that the loans for salaried workers, something which has just been implemented, has been very successful.
There is very high demand for this service and we will continue to see how we can effect it to access other workers. However, most importantly, I want to say that the workers’ money must be protected, and we are not going to invest it where we are not going to get returns.
Finally, investing into people is very crucial, Mr Chairman and honourable members. The Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development is going to work within the sector-wide approach together with other sectors and with you, to ensure that we achieve our target.
When we bring you the CIDIC and Community Empowerment Bill, I urge you to support it so that we will be able to mobilise our communities to access all these government programmes and eventually improve their quality of lives. I thank you, Mr Chairman, and I thank the Members of Parliament.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your timely reassurance.
THE MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND SPORTS (Dr Khiddu Makubuya): Mr Chairman, I want to thank you for this opportunity to be able to say a few things.
First, I want to thank the Committee on Social Services for assisting me and the Ministry of Education and Sports to really resolve many contradictions during this budget process. Mr Chairman, we have held over 12 meetings with the committee this budget season and the last meeting was held this morning. So, you can see that they have greatly assisted the ministry and me to come to grips with the assignment before us.
I would like to thank honourable members who have managed to contribute. I recorded 18 contributions, and all these are serious contributions. So, my brief approach would be; there is this important report from the committee on my sector, which is Education and Sports, and frankly I accept most of the things that appear in this report and I do not contest the report. I will study the report and see how far I can go in implementing the recommendations that have been made.
Similarly, Mr Chairman, frankly, I do not contest what has been said by honourable members here on the Floor. Most of it is sound advice, some of it empirically based. I will contest one or two things. Otherwise, I accept the contributions as advice and I can promise you, Mr Chairman and honourable members, that I will study the Hansard of this debate very carefully. I will take out what is practicable and what we can implement depending on our resource envelope and our capacity as of today.
However, Sir, if I was to stop there, I am sure one or two honourable members would be disappointed. Therefore, allow me to proceed in a summary fashion to deal with some of the issues that have been raised.
The question of a loan scheme for public universities has been raised, but we have covered it in brief at page 30 of the Policy Statement. In the statement, we say that implementation modalities and guidelines for the students’ loan scheme are being developed. A consultant has been engaged for this purpose and agreed modalities will be factored into the strategic plan for higher education, which is going to take effect this year. So, what I hear from the members is that this matter must be expedited and I commit myself to expedite it.
Mr Chairman, there is the issue of onward linkages from UPE. We have covered this comprehensively in our Post Primary Education and Training Policy Framework. I undertake to distribute copies to members shortly after we deal with the budget.
Mr Chairman, we do not just build seed schools and new ones and ignore the old secondary schools. No! In fact, the capitation grants go to all government granted schools including the old ones. We have some limited capital development for these schools, but I think what is being called for is a special programme to revamp our historic secondary schools. I think this is a matter, which we will study and see if it is possible.
Hon. Baba Diri raised a number of issues with us on special schools. She said that she did not see them mentioned in our policy statement. In brief, Sir, they are there on page 78 and they are not two; they are actually three, two primary schools and one secondary school. They are there.
Hon. Baba Diri also raised the issue of mathematics and blind persons. She asked whether we are going to eliminate them because they cannot pick up mathematics out of no fault of their own. No, there is no policy of eliminating them. This is another matter, which we shall be urgently considering, to see whether we can have special arrangements to avoid prejudicing them out of no fault of their own.
Mr Chairman, some of the points that were made are so interesting. I am sorry time does not permit me to go through all of them, but Dr Byatike Matovu, for example, raised the issue of whether mathematics and science teachers will be available.
I am grateful to my committee, and I am grateful to the Ministry of Finance because we have found this Shs 4.6 billion for the teachers in these specialist areas. The challenge is now for all of us as a country to look for these teachers. Where are they? Let us look for them. And we will soon begin advertising as the monies begin to flow; we shall; I can assure you of that one.
There is also something interesting, again arising from hon. Matovu’s contribution. He said that if you cannot get these teachers readily, is it possible for you to think of affirmative action for people who will be teaching in these special areas? Technically, it is called “early streaming” and some countries do it. I think it is time for us also to examine this as a viable possibility.
Hon. Mawiya incidentally raised the issue of fees structures in secondary schools. This is a matter, which we are studying and we shall soon come out with a concrete position.
Mr Chairman, I would like to accept this advice from you wholeheartedly, and my ministry will do everything possible to study Bulamogi County so that this complaint is taken out of the way.
Now I have this contribution, it begins by saying that the Minister of Education, Kiddhu Makubuya, is a friend of the honourable member who made this contribution, and this is hon. Capt. Steven Basaliza. I am glad that he is still in the House. He said that I have refused to reply his letter, other ministers respond to letters, so who do I think I am not to respond to his letter. He said that the Minister of Education and his technocrats are arrogant.
Mr Chairman, I saw hon. Basaliza’s letter yesterday. It is dated 13 August 2003 and it is addressed to me, but I saw it yesterday.
It says:
“RE: MUGUSU SEED SCHOOL
During the Budget Speech, the Minister of Finance highlighted the seed schools that had been constructed in the country in line with the Movement Government Policy to sow seeds of education in rural sub-counties, which are less advantaged, so as to absorb the universal primary school graduates.
To be specific, hon. Ssendaula read out one of the seed schools as Mugusu Seed School at Mugusu, Burahya, Kabarole. However, this school is non-existent and instead it was constructed in Fort Portal Municipality at Kagote.
During your interaction with the Committee on Social Services, I raised this issue and you tasked your ministry staff to give an explanation as to why the school was diverted. I recall the Commissioner of Education, Mr Yusufu Nsubuga, blamed the district leadership for diverting the school to Kagote.
The purpose of this letter is to request for a written explanation and the disciplinary action that would be taken on whoever is responsible for sabotaging government programmes in line with H.E President Yoweri Kaguta Museveni’s Manifesto to sow seeds of education in all the sub-counties of Uganda.
Yours faithfully,
Capt. Steven Basaliza.
Member Of Parliament Burahya, Kabarole”
It is copied to many other people. Mr Chairman, I saw this letter yesterday and I replied to it today. The reply says:
“Hon. Capt. Steven Basaliza,
Member of Parliament Burahya, Kabarole District
Sir,
RE: MUGUSU SEED SCHOOL.
This is to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 13 August 2003 relating to the above matter. Thank you for the interest you have shown in the matter. I have instituted an investigation into the matter. I estimate that the investigation will take about 60 days. Only then will I be in position to give you a written explanation.
I need to ascertain the facts before I can establish whether misconduct or service offences have occurred and what disciplinary action may be taken against the perpetuators.
While I appreciate the urgency and gravity of the matter, I urge you to allow time for a proper investigation to be carried out.
Khiddu Makubuya
Minister of Education and Sports”
I copied it to all the people to whom he copied his letter.
I saw this letter yesterday and I replied to it today. If I had seen it earlier, I would have replied to it earlier. (Interruption)
THE CHAIRMAN: I think it may be the problem of the courier who delivered it, but you have given him the reply.
DR MAKUBUYA: Yes. Sir, apart from just this small matter of arrogance and all this, the actual substance is that we set out to construct 17 seed schools. Because of the policy of decentralisation, we asked the districts to identify the sites where these schools will be built. In two out of seventeen cases, it has not worked out according to the criteria. But in 15 out of 17, it has worked out. I think we will do our best in future to correct these anomalies in the two cases, but actually we tried our best.
Shoddy construction work in the schools and the complicity of the headquarters; this is a matter I undertake to investigate.
Disparity in salaries between head teachers and teachers in primary schools: The fact of the matter is that this is not solely within the Ministry of Education. There is something called a job evaluation instrument and it has been developed by the Ministry of Public Service. They apply it in terms of responsibilities shouldered by the various jobs, time required, expertise required, skills required; so when they apply it to teachers, the head teacher gets that salary and the classroom teacher gets that one. This is an instrument, which government has accepted, so we have to live with it until we devise another way of approaching the remuneration for these jobs.
Mr Chairman, the government policy is that parents should not be asked to pay for lunch in primary schools. That is the government policy; parents should not be asked to pay for lunch of their children in UPE schools. (Interruption)
MR WAMBUZI GAGAWALA: Mr Chairman is the Minister of Education in order to insist on a situation where children are not eating at all, where government is pumping money continuously and classrooms have been built for 1,500 pupils, but only 700 are studying because of food? Are we just going to insist on that policy?
In Kenya pupils are fed, even in countries in Europe, primary schools are actually given food. After all, some of these classrooms where we are pumping in money will never actually be used because of food. I think we need to refocus our policy. Is he in order to insist on that, and that is it?
THE CHAIRMAN: Well, you see, he also just announced that this is government policy. Whether it is a good policy or not is a different matter. Let him state the government policy and then if we see it is not a good policy, we shall deal with it. But he was only announcing that it is their policy; it does not necessarily mean that government policy is good policy. But I think let us get his policy.
PROF. KHIDDU MAKUBUYA: Mr Chairman, I thank you for your wise ruling. The fact of the matter is that, even according to our Constitution, the provision of basic education is the joint responsibility of the parent and the State. (Interruption)
PROF. APOLO NSIBAMBI: Thank you, Mr Chairman, and thank you, my colleague, for giving way. I think it is Article 34(2). It says:
“A child is entitled to basic education which shall be the responsibility of the State and the parents of the child.”
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, but I think this is a serious matter. It is a policy, which was announced, we heard it and I think we do not have the input of the parents. Maybe as Parliament, we can discuss this topic as soon as we finish the budget process, so that you, the representatives of the people, can say what you think about the policy. (Interruptions) I think clarifications will come later because I will give you time to speak about it.
This will be a topic for discussion and we will place it as an item on the Order Paper. We shall see how to analyse it. Because this is our work, to scrutinise government policy and help the government or the Executive to take into consideration what we think.
PROF. KHIDDU MAKUBUYA: I thank you, Mr Chairman. I will not dwell on this matter anymore since you have promised to allocate time in the future to deal with it.
I think we are also advised that we should look at the differences in examination performance between rural schools and city schools, undertake a study and correct the imbalance. We will undertake the study.
There is this matter, which has been articulated both in the committee’s report and by members here on the Floor, that is, the need for a public university in the East. This is a matter, which I undertake to investigate and see what is possible.
Hon. Matte talked about incentives for teachers in hard-to-reach areas. There are some on the ground. They may not be as comprehensive as we may want, but we are making a beginning on incentives for teachers in hard-to-reach areas in terms of an actual top-up on the salary, housing and so on. We are making a start.
Sir, the last point which I am going to dwell on was made by hon. Prof. Kamuntu. He says that we should be very conscious about what is known as the quota system because knowledge knows no quotas and so on. Sir, the position, which was given by Parliament, was that after the discussion, we still have to relate it to Cabinet so that we can speak with one voice. What I undertake is to expedite this process –(Interjections)- Yes, I undertake to expedite this process.
Mr Chairman, I must repeat my thanks to the committee and to the honourable members. I urge everybody to support the budget of the Ministry of Education and Sports. Thank you, Mr Chairman.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FINANCE, GENERAL DUTIES (Mr Mwesigwa Rukutana): Mr Chairman, I feel I should make one brief clarification in addition to what the Rt hon. Prime Minister said because time and again, the Ministry of Finance has been blamed for not respecting this programme, for not doing this.
I want to say that contrary to the popular belief here, allocation of resources and privatisation of government programmes is not the preserve of the Ministry of Finance. There is an elaborate procedure of central decision making, as has been ably put across by the Rt. hon. Prime Minister. The only problem we have, honourable members, is balancing the priorities within the restricted resource envelope. So, we do not feel fairly treated when members stand up and bash us as if we take the decision on who takes what. I felt I should elaborate that. Until our revenues are sufficient to cover our needs, we shall be in this problem. I am ending by saying that we shall do our best to improve our revenue so that these problems are concluded once and for all.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, honourable Minister. I put the question that the report on Sessional Committee on Social Services, on the ministerial policy statements and the budget estimates for the Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development and the Ministry of Education and Sports be adopted.
(Question put and agreed to.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
VOTE 013 – MINISTRY OF EDUCATION AND SPORTS RECURRENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now put the question that the total sum of Shs46,903,994,000 under Vote 013, Ministry of Education and Sports, be provided for as recurrent expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
VOTE 013 – MINISTRY OF EDUCATION AND SPORTS DEVELOPMENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now put the question that the total sum of Shs 99,920,556,000 under Vote 013, Ministry of Education and Sports, be provided for as development expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
VOTE 136 – MAKERERE UNIVERSITY RECURRENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now put the question that the total sum of Shs 26,289,000,000 under Vote 136 of Makerere University, be provided for as recurrent expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
VOTE 136 – MAKERERE UNIVERSITY DEVELOPMENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now put the question that the total sum of Shs 16,855,000,000 under Vote 136 of Makerere University, be provided for as development expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
VOTE 140 – UGANDA MANAGEMENT INSTITUTE RECURRENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now put the question that the total sum of Shs 395,560,000 under Vote 140 of Uganda Management Institute, be provided for as recurrent expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
VOTE 132 – EDUCATION SERVICE COMMISSION RECURRENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now put the question that the total sum of Shs 1,536,349,000 under vote 132 of Education Service Commission, be provided for as a recurrent expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
VOTE 132 – EDUCATION SERVICE COMMISSION DEVELOPMENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now put the question that the total sum of Shs52,800,000 under vote 132 of Education Service Commission be provided for as development expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
VOTE 137 – MBARARA UNIVERSITY RECURRENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now put the question that the total sum of Shs 7,189,000,000 under Vote 137 of Mbarara University be provided for as recurrent expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
VOTE 137 – MBARARA UNIVERSITY DEVELOPMENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now put the question that the total sum of Shs 436,600,000 under Vote 137 of Mbarara University be provided for as development expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
VOTE 139 – KYAMBOGO UNIVERSITY RECURRENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now put the question that the total sum of Shs 4,987,871,000 under Vote 139 of Kyambogo University be provided for as recurrent expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
VOTE 139 - KYAMBOGO UNIVERSITY DEVELOPMENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now put the question that a total sum of Shs233, 900,000 under Vote 139 of Kyambogo University be provided for as development expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
VOTE 138 - MAKERERE UNIVERSITY BUSINESS SCHOOL RECURRENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now put the question that a total sum of Shs 2,907,304,000 under Vote 138 of Makerere University Business School be provided for as recurrent expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
Vote 149 - GULU UNIVERSITY RECURRENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now propose the question that a total sum of Shs 1,860,500,000 under vote 149 of Gulu University be provided for as recurrent expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
VOTE 149 - GULU UNIVERSITY DEVELOPMENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now propose the question that a total sum of Shs 1,199,000,000 under vote 149 of Gulu University be provided for as development expenditure for financial 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
VOTE 018 - MINISTRY OF GENDER, LABOUR AND SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT RECURRENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now put the question that a total sum of Shs 4,979,000,000 under Vote 018 OF THE Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development be provided as recurrent expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
VOTE 018 MINISTRY OF GENDER, LABOUR AND SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT - DEVELOPMENT EXPENDITURE
THE CHAIRMAN: I now put the question that a total sum of Shs 9,946, 000,000 under vote 018 Minister of Gender, Labour and Social Development be provided for as Development expenditure for financial year 2003/2004.
(Question put and agreed to.)
MOTION FOR THE HOUSE TO RESUME
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FINANCE, GENERAL DUTIES (Mr Mwesigwa Rukutana): Mr Chairman, I beg to move that the House do resume and the committee of Supply do report there to. I beg to move.
THE CHAIRMAN: I put the question.
(Question put and agreed to.)
REPORT FROM THE COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FINANCE, GENERAL DUTIES (Mr Mwesigwa Rukutana): Mr Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has considered the report of the Social Services Committee and passed the following votes subject to minor amendments under the Ministry of Education Vote 103,136,146,132,137,138, 139 and 149, Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development, Vote 018. I beg to move.
MOTION FOR THE ADOPTION OF THE REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FINANCE, GENERAL DUTIES (Mr Mwesigwa Rukutana): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the report of the Committee of Supply be adopted. I beg to move.
THE SPEAKER: I put the question.
(Question put and agreed to.)
THE SPEAKER: Honourable members, I want to thank the Chairperson and members of the committee for the work done. We have been able to complete this giant report so thanks must go to the committee. I think we are doing well we have now covered about five reports or so. I think we will be able to complete the process in time.
I want to request you that next week- because I am going to adjourn the House to Monday - be on time so that we can also complete the work assigned for that particular day. Now that we have finished today’s work you are free to go to the Seminar at Hotel Africana. They are dealing with the issue of GT, the abolition or retention of Graduated tax. With this honourable member we come to the end of today’s business. House is adjourned until Monday 2.00 p.m. prompt.
(The House rose at 2.30p.m and adjourned until Monday, 25 August 2003 at 10.00 a.m.)
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